Treningsforum

Arkiv => The Best Of Treningsforum => Emne startet av: 25årstrening på 13. mai 2004, 11:43



Tittel: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening13. mai 2004, 11:43
Hvordan skal jeg trene for å oppnå muskelvekst?

Dette klassiske spørsmålet besvares ulikt av de forskjellige menighetene innen kroppsbygging (HST, HIT, Volum osv), selv om grunnprinsippene i mange typer program har fellestrekk. Svaret er selvsagt at man kan vokse med ulike treningsopplegg, og at variasjon i volum, intensitet, antall reps, treningsfrekvens osv. fra tid til annen kan være gunstig for å få kroppen til å tilpasse seg nye belastninger.
Men er det mulig å si noe om parametre for optimal vekst? Hormonrespons på trening er et forskningsfelt som i hvertfall får en del oppmerksomhet for dagen, og jeg har derfor sakset fra en artikkel på bodybuilding.com. For referanser, se nederst i artikkelen.
By: Coach Hale

Virtually everything you do in life triggers a hormonal response in the body. Hormonal levels control our body's actions. It is very important to understand the key role hormones play in inducing muscular growth as well as muscular breakdown.

 Hormones are chemical messengers that are secreted by the endocrine system. Once they are in the blood they travel to specific receptor sites on cells. Tissue adaptions are partly dependent on hormonal levels. It is important that the athlete has a basic understanding of these powerful messengers. Manipulating these hormones to your advantage ensures successful adaption, training, health and performance.

Muscle Fiber Changes

The most important adaption that takes place in muscle tissue is the increase in contractile proteins, actin and myosin. Other changes occur such as the synthesis of non-contractile proteins (satellite cells), which can become part of the contractile element of muscle tissue. Stimulation of these mechanisms occurs with resistance training. Decreasing protein breakdown and increasing protein synthesis are the first steps in hypertrophy.

The anabolic hormones insulin, insulin like growth factor, testosterone and growth hormone are all contributing factors to this process. Decreasing the catabolic hormones such as cortisol is also important in this process. The more muscle fibers stimulated with a particular exercise, the greater the adaptive response. Hormones have a great effect on the capabilities and structure of muscle fibers.

Receptors

The lock-and-key theory states that a specific hormone interacts with a specific receptor site. The hormone acts like a key while the receptor site is like a lock. Once the key opens the lock, a message is sent to the cell to perform a specific action. The genetic material in the nucleus of the cell either translates the message to mean protein synthesis or protein breakdown. Once an adaption ceiling is reached, the cell becomes down regulated (non-responsive) to the hormone. Down regulation of the receptor inhibits alteration in cell metabolism.

Two Main Hormones

There are two main categories of hormones: steroid and polypeptide hormones. These hormones affect muscle cells in different ways.

The gonads and the adrenal cortex secrete steroid hormones. The hormone diffuses across the sarcolemma and binds with its receptor, thus activating it. When the hormone reaches the cell nucleus it opens up units that are coded for protein synthesis. The hormone receptor-complex recognizes certain regulatory mechanisms of genes. The end result is that messenger RNA is processed and shuttled to the sarcoplasm where it becomes protein.

Polypeptide hormones are made of amino acids. Growth hormone and insulin are example of this classification. These hormones are not fat-soluble therefore they cannot penetrate the sarcolemma. They rely on secondary messengers to get their message to the cell nucleus. The change in the receptor as a result of the interaction with the hormone triggers the secondary messenger. A chain of intracellular events lead to the physiological response contributed to the hormone.

Heavy Resistance Exercise

Heavy resistance exercise stimulates significant adaptions in trained muscles such as increased strength, size and power. Resistance training causes endocrine glands to secrete hormones. These hormones provide an excess of information to the body. These hormones elicit different responses. The pattern and duration of exercise greatly influence the type of hormone secreted.



This in return greatly effects the tissue adaptions that occur. Hormonal increases that take place due to resistance training are different than responses activated by endurance exercise. Motor units are utilized with resistance training that are not with other types of exercise. These high threshold motor units are only activated when great amounts of force are needed, such as with heavy resistance training. The muscle fibers within these motor units are activated and a great amount of stress is placed upon the sarcolemmas of the muscle fibers. The stress elicits changes in sarcolemma permeability to nutrients and synthesis and sensitivity of receptors are affected. Finally, it is the force produced in the activated fibers that lead to the anabolic response in the muscle cells.

During and following exercise, numerous hormonal secretions take place. The desired outcome is synthesis of actin and myosin and inhibition of protein breakdown. If the stress is to great or long in duration, catabolic forces such as cortisol take over the muscle. The hormonal responses depend on tissues stimulated, duration of exercise and needed amount of repair.

Once a muscle has reached a high level of development, protein synthesis is no longer the key mechanism for growth. Thus decreasing protein breakdown is the number one contributor to muscular growth. Keep in mind that only the muscle fibers stimulated are subject to affect. This is why it is important to vary exercises. Only the fibers stimulated receive hormonal benefits. If you use the same exercise for biceps every time you train, you will not maximize growth because the same fibers are stimulated continuously. Angles and loading parameters control the extent of hormonal interaction within muscles.

The response of muscles to hormones is dependent on a few factors. If there are great amounts of the hormone in the blood, the chances of affecting the receptors are greater. If the cell is close to its genetic ceiling, the receptor becomes less responsive to the hormone. With heavy resistance training the recovery ability correlates with muscle fiber size. Incorrect training protocols can result in the downside of hormones, catabolism. Interactions between hormones and muscles can negatively influence cellular structure or have a positive effect on growth.

There is an array of factors that contribute to hypertrophy. However, increased force production cannot be contributed to hypertrophy alone. Neural factors play a great role in maximum force production. Each individual varies in forms of neurological efficiency just as they do with hormonal levels.

Hormones In Blood

Blood levels are sometimes used to test for the secretion of hormones. This can be a complex task because the hormonal levels are ever changing in the bloodstream. It should be noted that just because a hormone is present in the bloodstream does not mean that it will successfully reach the receptor site. Although, the higher concentrations of the hormones in the blood the greater possibility for the hormone to bind to the receptor.

The ideal situation for anabolism is to have a higher number of anabolic hormones in the blood than catabolic hormones. This usually leads to positive cellular adaptions.

The anabolic hormones we will be discussing are testosterone, growth hormone, insulin and insulin like growth factors. These are the primary hormones involved with muscular growth.

Testosterone

Everyone involved with the exercise industry has some conception of testosterone. To most it is an evil word, "TESTOSTERONE." This stuff makes people commit violent crimes, die of heart attacks and suffer from strokes. It also allows anyone to put on extraordinary amounts of muscle. Where do these ideas come from? They come from ignorant people who know zero about this hormone.

Testosterone indirectly effects protein synthesis by releasing growth hormone, which increases the release of Insulin Growth Factor (IGF) from the liver. Testosterone has effects on the nervous system, which lead to increasing neurotransmitters and increasing neuromuscular junctions, which enhance muscle size. As neurological efficiency increases, force production also increases.

The mechanism in which testosterone interacts with the cell nucleus is inexact. Once testosterone is secreted, a transport protein called globulin to a receptor site carries it. From here, a message is activated and sent to the cell nucleus. Protein synthesis is the result of this series of events. Concentrations of testosterone are often used as an anabolic marker. There are certain exercise variables that can have a positive effect on blood testosterone levels.

They Are As Follows:


Workouts lasting under sixty minutes.
Multiple sets
Compound exercises
Short rest intervals (one minute)
Heavy resistance, 80% - 90% of 1RM.
Have you ever heard the saying, "Squat and deadlift and your whole body will grow." Elevating testosterone levels as well as stimulating large amounts of muscle mass are the reason this occurs. If you rely solely on the use of machines, try introducing compound exercises and expect your gains to accelerate.

 The majority of research done on hormonal responses in relation to exercise has been tested on male subjects. Testosterone responses have been credited as the major determinant in the difference between male and female muscularity and force production. On average, males produce about ten times the testosterone of females. Thus far, studies do not show any significant changes in women's testosterone levels due to exercise.

Growth Hormone

Growth hormone has been cited as a growth mechanism in skeletal muscle tissue and other tissues in the body. Growth hormone is important in the normal growth of a child as well as the role it plays in adapting to exercise.

Some Of The Roles Of Growth Hormone Include:


Increased protein synthesis
Utilization of fatty acids
Increasing amino acid transportation
Increasing cartilage growth
Promotes lipolysis
Reduces carbohydrate utilization for energy
Most studies say growth hormone is released due to neurological signals from the nervous system stimulated by exercise stress and anxiety. Signals to the hypothalamus cause a hormonal release that stimulates the secretion of growth hormone. Growth hormone also stimulates the release of IGFs from the liver. IGFs are potent anabolic agents, which enhance protein synthesis.

Blood levels of growth hormone vary throughout the day. The highest levels of secretion occur during sleep. This is one of the reasons adequate sleep assists the body in recovering and growing properly. Exercise has been shown to increase growth hormone secretion at any time during the day.

The pharmacological use of growth hormone is a highly debated subject. Some experts say growth hormone treatment is the main reason bodybuilders are much more muscular and ripped than they were in the past. Others report growth hormone is only beneficial to bodybuilders that simultaneously use anabolic steroids. Debating this topic is another article in itself. In this article the main concern is increasing endogenous mechanisms that result in growth hormone secretion. Further research is needed to tell us just how exogenous growth hormone compares to natural growth hormone production.

Increased hydrogen ions appear to stimulate the release of growth hormone. This means higher blood lactate concentrations (closely associated with hydrogen ions) mean higher blood levels of growth hormone.

Light resistance exercise has been shown to be non-effective in raising growth hormone levels. Kraemer found when using moderate resistance (10RM) with multiple sets and short rest periods (1 minute), serum growth hormone levels increased. By carefully designing your resistance-training program it is possible to reap the rewards of elevated growth hormone.

When going through the menstrual cycle, women have higher blood levels of growth hormone than men. Research on females has shown when using heavy resistance (5RM) and resting for three minutes between sets, no significant rise in growth hormone occurs. However, when using moderate resistance (10RM) with short rest periods (1 minute) rises occur. Varying routines is important for altering levels of growth hormone.

Insulin

Insulin is a peptide hormone that is secreted from the beta cells of the pancreas. Insulin can have positive effects on skeletal muscle, but it can also enhance bodyfat levels.

Insulin Functions Are As Follows:


Lowers blood glucose.
Promotes cellular uptake of carbohydrates, amino acids and fatty acids.
Excessive insulin results in fat storage.
Training has been shown to increase the sensitivity of insulin. The insulin drop during exercise is reduced by the training effect. Further research needs to be conducted to determine insulin's response in regards to training.


"Injectable insulin is very dangerous and can result in fatality within a matter of minutes."
Insulin acts as a powerful anabolic agent by shuttling amino acids into the muscle cell. Many experts view this hormone as the most powerful anabolic agent in existence. This is why the use of injectable insulin has become commonplace among bodybuilders. Injectable insulin is very dangerous and can result in fatality within a matter of minutes. If you use injectable insulin be sure it is under the supervision of a doctor.

 Manipulating insulin levels is important for physique purposes. The right amounts at the right time result in muscular gains while chronically high levels result in fat storage. Excessive levels of insulin reduce testosterone and growth hormone levels. High levels of insulin can also stop the production of eicosanoids. Jay Robb has stated that production of eicosanoids is synthesized within the body from essential fatty acids especially from linolenic acid. Levels of insulin can be manipulated by carbohydrate intake. Too much of a good thing can result in a bad thing.

IGF

Insulin like growth factors (IGFs) are secreted by the liver after growth hormone signals liver DNA to synthesize them. IGFs are classified as IGF-I, a 70 amino-acid polypeptide, or IGF-II, a 67 amino-acid polypeptide. IGFs travel in the blood while being attached to binding proteins where they attach to receptor sites.

The disruption of various cells including fat and muscle cells stimulates the release of IGF. Fat cells store high levels of IGF, while skeletal muscle contains small amounts. It is likely that non-liver cells release IGF without the assistance of growth hormone. It is also possible that specific cells produce IGF, but do not release it into the bloodstream.

Binding proteins play an important part in the function of IGF. IGF has been shown to stimulate the release of binding protein within the muscle itself, therefore changing the cells responsiveness to IGF. Nutritional profile has also shown to be an important factor in IGF responsiveness. Sudden changes in nitrogen balance and protein intake seem to effect IGF levels. Binding proteins act as a reservoir for IGF. These proteins release IGF once a receptor site is open. Thus the amount of IGF degradation is reduced.

At this time, it is unclear how heavy resistance training effects IGF levels. One study showed that a variety of different exercise patterns elicited an IGF rise about two hours after training. Further research needs to be conducted to learn more about exercise effects on IGF levels.

Controlling anabolic hormones is one of the most important aspects of controlling your physique. These powerful hormones previously discussed can help you to reach your fullest potential.

Main Catabolic Hormone

The most powerful catabolic hormone is cortisol. Minimizing cortisol levels can assist greatly in maximizing your growth potential.

Cortisol is a hormone that is produced by the adrenal cortex. This hormone is released to help the body deal with stress and provide energy to the body. The problem with this hormone is the catabolic effects it has on the body.

These Effects Are As Follows:

Increases proteolytic enzymes (enzymes that degrade protein)
Turns amino acids to carbohydrates
Inhibits protein synthesis
Breakdown of collagen and ligament tissue
Cortisol has greater catabolic effects in fast twitch fibers in comparison to slow twitch fibers
In cases of injury, cortisol elevation results in nitrogen degradation and causes a loss of contractile protein. This loss results in muscle atrophy. Inside the muscle, anabolic hormones such as insulin and testosterone counter the actions of cortisol. If the anabolic hormones occupy a greater number of receptors, protein is maintained or enhanced. When cortisol is bound to a greater number of receptors, protein breakdown is enhanced. Ensuring that anabolic hormones are higher than catabolic hormones is important for muscle maintenance and growth.

Resistance training that utilizes high volume; large muscle groups and shorter rest periods are responsible for the highest levels of cortisol. This is interesting because the stimulus that causes the greatest catabolic effect also causes the greatest growth hormone response. While cortisol levels promote breakdown, short time increases could also help with muscular growth. Muscles must be broken down in order to repair themselves and grow. Short-term cortisol elevation would help this process. Athletes often use testosterone-cortisol ratio blood levels to determine if their bodies are in a growth state. This sounds logical, but this ratio has proven unsuccessful as being a marker for mass and strength gains. The multiple roles of cortisol make the test inadequate in being a true marker of anabolism or catabolism.

In conclusion, it is evident that hormones are responsive to muscle tissue.
References

1. Baechle, T.R. (1994) Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Human Kinetics.
2. Dipasquale, M. (1995) The Anabolic Diet. Optimum Training Systems.
3. Hale, J. (2000) Optimum Physique. Jamie Hale.
4. Hatfield, F.C. (1993) Fitness The Complete Guide. The International Sports Sciences Publishing.
5. Robb, J. (1994) The Fat Burning Diet. Loving Health Publications.




Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: L2-CaStLe13. mai 2004, 14:35
Nyttig lesing for meg det her, fikk svar på et par ting, lukter honnør dette =)


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening13. mai 2004, 16:19
Nyttig lesing for meg det her, fikk svar på et par ting, lukter honnør dette =)

Hyggelig at du hadde utbytte av den! Kanskje noen har synspunkt på dette med kortisol. Artikkelen sier ikke noe om hvilke treningsregime som over tid gir best anabol effekt, men dette er selvsagt også vanskeligere å måle.


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Baahh13. mai 2004, 17:38
Veldig interesant å lese...  ::2thumbsup:: (honnør for den)

Once a muscle has reached a high level of development, protein synthesis is no longer the key mechanism for growth. Thus decreasing protein breakdown is the number one contributor to muscular growth. Keep in mind that only the muscle fibers stimulated are subject to affect. This is why it is important to vary exercises. Only the fibers stimulated receive hormonal benefits. If you use the same exercise for biceps every time you train, you will not maximize growth because the same fibers are stimulated continuously. Angles and loading parameters control the extent of hormonal interaction within muscles.

Fant ikke igjen den posten nå, men hadde jo en diskusjon med en om akuratt dette.. At det er viktig å bytte øvelser iblant.. yes yes...


Short rest intervals (one minute)
Heavy resistance, 80% - 90% of 1RM.

Her må man da finne en liten balanse... Jo kortere man venter jo mindre klarer man jo, så hva er egentlig viktigst her? Lest mange andre treningsteorier (bla. Max-OT) som mener at det ikke har noe å si om man venter i 5minutter.. Men er det no referanse på dette eller er det bare en teori?



Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening13. mai 2004, 17:54
Veldig interesant å lese...  ::2thumbsup:: (honnør for den)


Her må man da finne en liten balanse... Jo kortere man venter jo mindre klarer man jo, så hva er egentlig viktigst her? Lest mange andre treningsteorier (bla. Max-OT) som mener at det ikke har noe å si om man venter i 5minutter.. Men er det no referanse på dette eller er det bare en teori?



Takk, og takk også for ditt meget betimelige spørsmål. Her kan jeg se for meg en nokså livlig diskusjon. Jeg har ikke på noen måte noe fasitsvar. Det særlig ett forsøk som blir mye sitert faktisk synes å vise, er at dette å trene flere sett per muskelgruppe med relativt korte pauser mellom settene, og å trene med ikke mer enn ca 10-12 reps, øker forekomsten av de anabole hormonene. Så vidt jeg kan se er det også forskere som mener at enda tyngre sett med færre reps øker utsondringen av testosteron i kroppen. Ved å sammenlikne trening i reps-intervallet 4-6 versus 8-12 har man over tid ikke funnet signifikante forskjeller i muskelmasse. Jeg kan se om jeg finner noen av referansene på dette i morgen.

Endelig er det også trenere som mener at vi bør utnytte variasjon her, kanskje trene noen av basisøvelsene i begynnelsen av hver økt tungt, for deretter å trene med litt flere reps i en del andre øvelser (en del svært gode kroppsbyggere gjør dette).
Men jeg ser at stadig flere støtter teorien om å treffe best mulig ift hormonrespons:
Manipulating Hormone Release
Naturally with Resistance Training
 
By Patrick Gamboa B.S.

Resistance training is the best natural stimulus for muscular growth. Many weight training programs have been developed over the years in an attempt to modify and manipulate this natural process, each with varying degrees of success. The truth is, the success of a program is often determined by its ability to elicit a specific hormonal response, and little else.

Hormones circulating during and after workouts directly affect muscle adaptation. Unfortunately, this is one of the most misunderstood aspects of resistance training. If we as trainers understood the natural anabolic activity in our clients resulting from specific styles of strength training, we could surely design more effective programs enabling our clients to recover faster, adapt and grow more effectively. Let's look at the factors of muscle fiber recruitment, and manipulating serum testosterone and growth hormone levels through resistance training.

The average beginning trainee knows that high repetitions (15 repetitions or more) is best for muscular endurance, and is not conducive to gaining muscular mass. The light weight used in high repetition work is not enough to innervate the higher threshold motor units in a muscle. The key is that only muscle fibers activated by the resistance training will respond to increased levels of anabolic hormones. When heavier weights (lower reps) are used in resistance training, more muscle fibers are recruited. The more muscle fibers recruited for an exercise, the greater the extent of remodeling in the entire muscle.

There is another reason that light weight and high repetitions are not optimal for stimulating muscular hypertrophy. The majority of the work done in high repetition sets is accomplished by slow-twitch Type I muscle fibers. Type I muscle fibers have a limited ability to hypertrophy. Type IIB fibers are activated when more force is required, and thus have the greatest potential for growth. Heavier weights accomplish more complete activation of the type 11B muscle fibers.

According to the size principle, motor units are recruited in order according to their recruitment thresholds and firing rates. Since most muscles contain a range of Type I and Type II fibers, force production can be very low or very high. Therefore, to get to a high-threshold motor unit, all of the motor units below it must be sequentially recruited. Heavy resistance training recruits these high threshold motor units, therefore all the units below it can undergo hormonal adaptations to the stress of the heavy loads.

An increase in serum testosterone levels is one result of heavy resistance training. Since testosterone is the primary hormone that interacts with skeletal muscle tissue, it has both direct and indirect effects on muscle tissue. Resistance training utilizing large muscle groups of the lower body (squats, deadlifts) can increase serum testosterone concentrations more than other types of exercises. Using a resistance of 85%-95% of one-rep maximum will also increase testosterone levels more than other resistance loads. Many aspiring novices will attempt to lift near 1 RM loads for one or two repetitions in the hopes of gaining muscle size. Although heavy resistance does innervate high threshold motor units, serum testosterone levels are increased through moderate to high volume of exercises. This is achieved through multiple sets, exercises, and a moderate repetition range (around 10 repetitions), with short rest intervals (between 30 seconds to 1 minute).

For gains in muscular size, smaller motor units need to be recruited first in each set of exercise. As the set progresses in intensity, larger units will then be recruited. If the low threshold motor units are inhibited to recruit the high threshold motor units for explosive movements (as in powerlifting), the low threshold units that are not activated will not undergo hormonal adaptations. This is because of the size principle of muscle fiber recruitment. Since motor units are recruited in an orderly fashion (from low threshold to high) and can span a range of muscle fiber types (Type I and Type II), then a moderate range of repetitions must be used to recruit the entire spectrum of fibers. This recruitment pattern allows the full spectrum of fibers to adapt to the training by increasing sensitivity to circulating anabolic hormones.

After a muscle has been subjected to intense stress through maximal force contractions over a moderate repetition range, hormones begin the growth process and muscle remodeling. Growth hormone plays a vital role in adapting to the stress of resistance training. Growth hormone levels can be increased through resistance training through high intensity (10 repetitions coupled with heavy resistance) with three sets of each exercise (high total workload) and short, one minute rest periods. Once the levels are elevated, a cascade of events occur; decreased glucose utilization, increased amino acid transport across cell membranes, increased protein synthesis, increased utilization of fatty acids, increased lipolysis (fat breakdown), enhanced immune functions, and a promotion of compensatory renal hypertrophy.

An understanding of natural anabolic activity, which occurs in your clients’ bodies, is essential to muscular adaptation, successful recovery, training progression, and ultimately muscular gains. High repetition resistance training (15 repetitions or more) does not innervate high threshold motor units and therefore limits the potential for Type IIB muscle fiber hypertrophy. Powerlifting, which does not allow for sufficient time to activate all motor units in an orderly fashion, diminishes the hormonal adaptations of the entire span of muscle fibers in any given motor unit. Only resistance training that is high in intensity, utilizing 8-10 repetitions, heavy resistance and a maximum of one minute rest between sets will maximize serum testosterone and growth hormone levels, thus allowing for successful recovery, adaptation, and muscular growth.

Patrick Gamboa B.S.
 



Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening14. mai 2004, 10:55
Det utføres mye forskning på området. For eksempel på sammenheng mellom temperatur og hormonrespons (indikasjoner på sterk sammenheng i seriøs forskning i USA), på ernæring og hormon-nivå, og på lett kondisjonstrening og anabolt hormon-nivå (også funn som tyder på klar sammenheng) etc. Det de aller fleste forskerne nå er helt enige om at det er en sammenheng mellom type trening og hormon-nivå, og at den hormonelle responsen korrelerer (er assosiert med) muskelvekst.

Muscle hypertrophy, hormonal adaptations and strength development during strength training in strength-trained and untrained men.

Ahtiainen JP, Pakarinen A, Alen M, Kraemer WJ, Hakkinen K.

Neuromuscular Research Center and Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyvaskyla, P.O. Box 35, 40014 Jyvaskyla, Finland. ahtiainen@sport.jyu.fi

Hormonal and neuromuscular adaptations to strength training were studied in eight male strength athletes (SA) and eight non-strength athletes (NA). The experimental design comprised a 21-week strength-training period. Basal hormonal concentrations of serum total testosterone (T), free testosterone (FT) and cortisol (C) and maximal isometric strength, right leg 1 repetition maximum (RM) of the leg extensors were measured at weeks 0, 7, 14 and 21. Muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) of the quadriceps femoris was measured by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) at weeks 0 and 21. In addition, the acute heavy resistance exercises (AHRE) (bilateral leg extension, five sets of ten RM, with a 2-min rest between sets) including blood samples for the determination of serum T, FT, C, and GH concentrations were assessed before and after the 21-week training. Significant increases of 20.9% in maximal force and of 5.6% in muscle CSA in NA during the 21-week strength training period were greater than those of 3.9% and -1.8% in SA, respectively. There were no significant changes in serum basal hormone concentrations during the 21-week experiment. AHRE led to significant acute decreases in isometric force and acute increases in serum hormones both at weeks 0 and 21. Basal T concentrations (mean of 0, 7, 14 and 21 weeks) and changes in isometric force after the 21-week period correlated with each other (r=0.84, P<0.01) in SA. The individual changes in the acute T responses between weeks 0 and 21 and the changes in muscle CSA during the 21-week training correlated with each other (r=0.76, P<0.05) in NA. The correlations between T and the changes in isometric strength and in muscle CSA suggest that both serum basal testosterone concentrations and training-induced changes in acute testosterone responses may be important factors for strength development and muscle hypertrophy.
PMID: 12734759 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Her fikk man altså også tydelige utslag med 2 minutters pauser.
Man har gjort et helt utall forsøk. Noe av det som ser ut til å bekrefte en gammel "teori" jeg har hatt, er betydningen av å følge opp tunge sett med noen lettere (antakelig sammenheng med laktatnivå), at bare å kjøre tunge sett (som i MAX OT) ikke gir nok stimulans for optimal muskelvekst:

A single set of low intensity resistance exercise immediately following high intensity resistance exercise stimulates growth hormone secretion in men.

Goto K, Sato K, Takamatsu K.

Doctoral Program in Health and Sport Sciences, University of Tsukuba, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan.

AIM: The purpose of the present study was to examine the effects of an additional set immediately following high intensity resistance exercise on growth hormone (GH) response. METHODS: Subjects (n=8) performed 4 resistance exercise protocols (bilateral knee extension exercise) on separate days. The protocols were categorized into 2 types of protocol, namely "Strength-up type (S-type)" and "Combination type (Combi-type)". The S-type was resistance exercise which consisted of 5 sets at 90% of 1 repetition maximum (RM) with 3-min rest periods between sets, whereas the Combi-type is a training protocol which adds an additional set (either 50% of 1 RM [C50-type], 70% of 1 RM [C70-type] or 90% of 1 RM [C90-type]) to the S-type. Serum GH concentration and blood lactate concentration were determined pre-exercise and at 0-60 min postexercise. Relative changes in thigh girth and maximal unilateral isometric strength were determined pre-exercise and immediately postexercise. RESULTS: The increasing values of GH concentration (DGH) in the S-type was the lowest of all protocols. On the other hand, DGH in the C50-type showed a significantly (p<0.05) higher increase than in the S-type and C90-type, and a relatively higher increase than in the C70-type. CONCLUSION: These results suggests that a high intensity, low volume training protocol to induce neural adaptation resulted in little GH response, but GH secretion was increased by performing a single set of low intensity resistance exercise at the end of a series of high intensity resistance sets.
PMID: 12853908 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Det finnes mye mer om temaet der ute.


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening14. mai 2004, 14:03
Samtidig som man studerer hormonresponsen av enkelte typer sett, vektbelastning, antall øvelser, pause mellom sett, osv., er det antakelig riktig å si at man ennå ikke har gjort nok forskning på hvilke typer treningsregimer som er mest effektive over tid. her kommer spørsmålet om total belastning versus optimalt anabolt miljø i kroppen inn, og kanskje særlig virkningen av det muskelnedbrytende hormonet kortisol. sakser fra en artikkel på pro-traineronline.com. Et nettsted som forøvrig har flere praktisk orienterte artikler.

Controlling Muscle Breakdown
Dustin Parsons B.S.

The hormonal response to training is without a doubt one of the top factors to a successful training program. Unfortunately, it is also one of the most complex variables. For this reason, the hormonal factor in training is often either misunderstood, or simply not considered. This is an error that can have detrimental consequences to a training program. In this article, we will turn much needed attention to the muscle-eating hormone cortisol.

The hormone cortisol is definitely one of the least understood, but most crucial hormones to consider during a training program. Cortisol is a hormone released from the cortex of the adrenal glands. Cortisol is catabolic, which means it works AGAINST testosterone, hGH and IGF by BREAKING DOWN the proteins in your muscles and organs and using the amino acids that are released for energy. For this reason, SUPPRESSING cortisol as much as possible is the goal in training.

This hormone:

Increases levels of enzymes that break down protein into amino acids


Inhibits protein synthesis


Converts amino acids to carbohydrates (gluconeogenesis)


Accelerates the mobilization and use of fat for energy during exercise


Cortisol and Training StyleEvery person that has ever trained for a sport or activity knows that certain styles of training elicit specific results. For example, it is widely known that weight training is the preferred training method for increasing muscle mass and strength, while one must train aerobically to minimize body fat and increase cardiovascular endurance. But why is this the case? The answer can be found when we look at the hormonal responses that each style of training produces.

Aerobic training stimulates a lower testosterone, and a higher cortisol response following a training session when compared to weight training. At the hormonal level, this is why aerobic training is very limited in making muscles grow in size. This response can be physiologically justified when we take into account smaller muscle fibers are more aerobically efficient. For this reason, muscle fibers (especially type 1) respond SPECIFICALLY to the training stimulus by NOT growing larger, and in some cases SHRINKING in size so that they can function most efficiently for aerobic work. This is why too much aerobic training during a muscle or strength building program can limit gains in strength and muscle mass. (3)

In the opposite manner, weight training produces a much higher testosterone response, and lower overall cortisol response than aerobic training, which is the sole reason that weight training makes your muscles hypertrophy (grow), while aerobic training typically does not. (3) The reason the body responds hormonally to weight training in this fashion is because larger muscles are needed to produce the strength and anaerobic endurance that is required of this type of activity. Again, we see the body's hormonal response is SPECIFIC to its adaptational needs.

Glycogen is Down, Cortisol is upProbably the most important point to remember about cortisol and diet is that when glycogen (stored carbohydrate) in the body gets low, cortisol levels rise. This makes perfect sense when you keep in mind that carbohydrate is your body's preferred source of calories. When the body does not have enough precious carbohydrates available, alternative sources of energy must be found. The only other options the body has for calories are fat and protein. Rising cortisol levels will speed up the breakdown of lean tissue (protein) in your body and convert the released amino acids into glucose (carbohydrate) for fuel. At the same time, rising cortisol will speed up the release of free fatty acids (from your body fat stores), making more body fat available for aerobic metabolism. (3,4)

Despite the fact that your body may use more fat when your glycogen levels are down, it will also use more muscle. This is obviously an especially undesirable effect for athletes or fitness enthusiasts who require strength and muscle mass for their sport or endeavors. Further complicating the problem, reduced muscle mass will slow the metabolism, ultimately HINDERING further fat loss efforts despite the immediate increase in fat burning.

If you want to maximize muscle mass, strength and body composition over the long term, you need to keep your glycogen levels as full as possible. This means that you need to make carbohydrates (preferably from complex sources) the greatest source of calories in the diet, and eat them with every meal. It means that you should replenish your depleted glycogen stores immediately after exercise to lower elevated post-exercise cortisol levels, best accomplished by taking a high-glycemic carbohydrate meal or drink as soon as possible after a workout.* (1,2)

More is not always better
Many people train with the philosophy that more is always better. "If you can get that much development from 8 sets, than 16 sets will produce twice as much." Unfortunately, weight training follows the law of diminishing returns, which means that you get the most gains from the first set of exercise, and less and less benefit from each set thereafter. What can happen when you follow the "more is better" rule too closely? A possible result is continuously elevated cortisol levels; a condition commonly referred to as overtraining. Too much and too frequent training can actually cause an overtrained state and a REDUCTION in muscle size and strength via elevated cortisol, proving that in strength training, sometimes more can be WORSE.

Always think of your training in terms of QUALITY, not QUANTITY. Huge training volumes only put a Band-Aid on poor training technique. Knowing and adhering to the principles, good form in the exercises, high mental focus and intensity, proper rest and proper periodization eliminate the need for an extreme amount of training volume to get great training results. In addition, following these rules might even HELP your progress by keeping average cortisol levels lower.


Indeed there is a lot to know about hormones and training. In previous articles, we have examined several of the anabolic hormones and how various training styles and techniques can manipulate the hormonal response for specific outcomes. Really no discussion on hormones and training would be complete without understanding at least the key points of the cortisol response. After all, if you fail to control cortisol levels, all of the anabolics in the world cannot stop the loss of lean body mass and strength that will result.

Semi-indirectly, I have shot down the validity of low carb/high protein diets in this article because of the cortisol response that glycogen depletion causes. The point was presented that high cortisol levels can be beneficial in increasing the use of fat as a fuel source. This, in itself, would seem beneficial to those interested in fat reduction or improving body composition. It would indeed be beneficial if the loss of lean body mass was not, at the same time, so devastating to body composition and fat loss in the long run. Remember that losing lean body mass slows the metabolism, which can promote weight gain in the future. In addition, because body composition (body fat percentage) is a ratio of fat weight to lean body weight, the loss of lean body mass alone can increase body composition measurements.

-James Dustin Parsons B.S.
parsons@issaonline.com


* Ingesting a high-glycemic solution immediately after a workout may have the additional benefit of increasing the post-workout hGH and IGF response, but also carry the drawback of decreasing the testosterone response. (2) This may suggest that strength exclusively athletes may wish to wait an hour after a workout before eating, while those trying to gain lean body mass may benefit more from an immediate post-workout meal containing high-glycemic carbohydrates. (1)


1) Conley, M.S. and M.H. Stone. Carbohydrate Ingestion/ Supplementation for Resistance Exercise and Training. Sports Med. 21(1):7-17. 1996.

2) Kraemer et al. Hormonal responses to consecutive days of heavy-resistance exercise with or without nutritional supplementation. Journal of Applied Physiology. 85 (4):1544. 1998.

3) National Strength and Conditioning Association, Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning, 2nd ed. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics. 2000.

4) Wilmore, J.H. Costill, D.L. Physiology of sport and exercise, 2nd ed. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics. 1999.

 



Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Baahh14. mai 2004, 18:35
Må lese igjennom stoffet sikkert 3ganger for å skjønne det, hehe... Men har lært utrolig mye nyttig saker og ting nå...
Dere andre burde også lese  ::2thumbsup::

but GH secretion was increased by performing a single set of low intensity resistance exercise at the end of a series of high intensity resistance sets.
A single set of low intensity resistance exercise immediately following high intensity resistance exercise stimulates growth hormone secretion in men.
:-\  altså...

*Høy intensitet
*1 lav-intesitet sett (hvor mange reps bør man kjøre her mener du?)
*Kort pause også et høy-intensitet-sett
(*)Så skal man egentlig kjøre et par lav-intensitet sett..)


Dette ble komplisert å putte inn i et så "lite" program som jeg kjører..
Hmm, 3 sett høy-intensitet, 1 sett lav-intensitet etterfulgt av (med KORT pause) 1 sett høy-intensitet og tilslutt 1 lav-intensitet sett... Nei du dette ble litt komplisert.. jojo-trening  :D

*forvirra*

This means that you need to make carbohydrates (preferably from complex sources) the greatest source of calories in the diet, and eat them with every meal. It means that you should replenish your depleted glycogen stores immediately after exercise to lower elevated post-exercise cortisol levels, best accomplished by taking a high-glycemic carbohydrate meal or drink as soon as possible after a workout.* (1,2)

Betyr dette at en lav-carb diett ikke er så smart eller er jeg helt på jordet nå?  :-\


Rising cortisol levels will speed up the breakdown of lean tissue (protein) in your body and convert the released amino acids into glucose (carbohydrate) for fuel.
Så det eneste man kan gjøre for å holde cortisol nivået nede er å holde Glycogen nivået oppe og få i seg nok karbs hvert måltid ? Går det ikke å holde å holde cortisol nivået nede med fett (istedet for karbs)?
Hvor mye karbs skal man spise på kvelden da, det er jo mange som nesten kutter helt...

--------------

Håper ikke disse spørsmålene ble helt korka    :-\


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening14. mai 2004, 19:25
Må lese igjennom stoffet sikkert 3ganger for å skjønne det, hehe... Men har lært utrolig mye nyttig saker og ting nå...
Dere andre burde også lese  ::2thumbsup::
 :-\  altså...

*Høy intensitet
*1 lav-intesitet sett (hvor mange reps bør man kjøre her mener du?)
*Kort pause også et høy-intensitet-sett
(*)Så skal man egentlig kjøre et par lav-intensitet sett..)
Dette ble komplisert å putte inn i et så "lite" program som jeg kjører..
Hmm, 3 sett høy-intensitet, 1 sett lav-intensitet etterfulgt av (med KORT pause) 1 sett høy-intensitet og tilslutt 1 lav-intensitet sett... Nei du dette ble litt komplisert.. jojo-trening  :D

*forvirra*
Betyr dette at en lav-carb diett ikke er så smart eller er jeg helt på jordet nå?  :-\
Så det eneste man kan gjøre for å holde cortisol nivået nede er å holde Glycogen nivået oppe og få i seg nok karbs hvert måltid ? Går det ikke å holde å holde cortisol nivået nede med fett (istedet for karbs)?
Hvor mye karbs skal man spise på kvelden da, det er jo mange som nesten kutter helt...

--------------

Håper ikke disse spørsmålene ble helt korka    :-\

Nei, dette var meget gode spørsmål. Får se om jeg kan si noe fornuftig her, siden forskningsresultatene som vanlig ikke er fullstednig samstemte.
La oss ta det siste først. Kortisolnivået må holdes nede gjennom å spise karbs til praktisk talt hvert måltid. Jeg finner ikke belegg for å si at fett kan erstatte karbohydratenes betydning for proteinsyntesen. Imidlertid er det vist sammenheng mellom fettinntak og testo-nivå. Sunt fett er gunstig for testo-nivå. Det er selvsagt flere andre ting du kan gjøre for å begrense kortisolets virkninger-spis ofte, og ikke tren for mye. Det siste er svært viktig, men her er det selvsagt individuelle forskjeller. Personlig spiser jeg ikke noe særlig karbs til natt-måltidet, men i følge denne teorien burde jeg gjøre det i bulk-perioder.
 
Når det gjelder antall øvelser, sett og reps tror jeg det er mulig å treffe godt med ganske ulike program. Du kan trene med tre tunge sett og så et lett som du sier, problemet er da å holde volumet nede på et nivå som gjør at ikke kortisolnivåene blir for høye.
Jeg vet mange vil være uenige i dette, men det er en type program som jeg har hatt veldig suksess med, og som Yates egentlig utviklet. Det pussige er at denne type trening også var vanlig blant en del norske byggere på midten av 80-tallet.

La meg forsøke å forklare ved eksempel, bryst-trening.
-varm opp med tre sett for bryst, øk vekten gradvis.
-tren ett sett 6-8 reps benkpress eller skråbenk, ta deretter to-tre ekstra reps ved hjelp eller dropp-sett.
-gå over til neste øvelse, og utfør ett lett sett i denne nye øvelsen, kjør så ett tungt sett- ikke nødvendigvis forced reps på hvert sett, men tungt, max 10 reps
-fortsett slik til du har trent 6 ulike øvelser.

Hva har vi oppnådd på denne brysttreningen-
-vi har aktivisert en stor andel av brystets muskelfibre vha flere og tunge øvelser
-stor utsondring av testosteron fordi vi har trent tungt
-begrenset utsondring av kortisol fordi volumet ikke er så stort-6 arbeidssett og 7-9 lette oppvarmingssett, og fordi varigheten av denne treninga er liten
-fordi vi hele tiden kunne bytte øvelser fikk vi trent med korte pauser
-vi har avsluttet hvert tunge sett med å gå over til et lett sett som øker utsondringen av GH, samtidig som vi øver inn bevegelsesbanen og føler oss fram til neste sett
-vi har oppnådd en meget pen konsentrasjon av laktat i brystmuskelauren.

Hvor vidt dette er mer effektivt enn å kjøre tre øvelser med tre sett av hver for bryst skal jeg ikke sette alle sparepengene mine på, men selv er jeg ikke i tvil om hva som har fungert best for meg. Morsomt å eksperimentere med dette, og jeg føler at jeg kan gå med høy innsats og fokus til hvert sett, samtidig som belastningen på ligament ikke virker å være så ekstrem som ved feks å kjøre 4 sett av hver øvelse.





Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Baahh14. mai 2004, 22:39
25årstrening: pm


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Dempsey19. mai 2004, 15:16
Ja, dette var nyttig!
Fant ut av noe jeg aldri har visst før
 ::2thumbsup::


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: LurrePer20. mai 2004, 01:44
Lykke til med å prøve å øke testosteronnivået ditt gjennom trening. Jeg mener det er naivt og utopisk å tro at man i merkbar grad kan manipulere genetiske satte hormonnivå.

Ellers lurer jeg på hvor mye glykogen du tror du bruker med din HIT-aktige treninger?  ;)

Til slutt vil jeg kommentere denne "If you want to maximize muscle mass, strength and body composition over the long term, you need to keep your glycogen levels as full as possible"

Jeg er ikke nødvendigvis enig med dette, hvis målet er reduksjon av fettmasse, kan det være gunstig å tømme energireservene i musklene, for å aktivere AMPK og cAMÅ-aktiveten (resultat: stor fettmobilisering og [kanskje] en muskelsparende effekt)


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Baahh20. mai 2004, 11:18
Til slutt vil jeg kommentere denne "If you want to maximize muscle mass, strength and body composition over the long term, you need to keep your glycogen levels as full as possible"

Jeg er ikke nødvendigvis enig med dette, hvis målet er reduksjon av fettmasse, kan det være gunstig å tømme energireservene i musklene, for å aktivere AMPK og cAMÅ-aktiveten (resultat: stor fettmobilisering og [kanskje] en muskelsparende effekt)

men her er jo målet (som det står) : "If you want to maximize muscle mass"  ::)


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening20. mai 2004, 15:35


men her er jo målet (som det står) : "If you want to maximize muscle mass"  ::)

Ja.
For å ikke tappe kroppen for mye for glykogen, bør man spise bra med karbohydrater og holde treningsøktene relativt kortvarige og ikke trene med for stor hyppighet (toleransen her er individuell, avhengig av en rekke faktorer). All trening hvor hensikten er å øke muskelmassen er anaerob, derfor er det lengden og frekvensen av treningsøktene som er den sentrale trenings-variabelen for å unngå for høye verdier av kortisol. Forøvrig er selvsagt "manipulering" av hormon-nivå et spørsmål om en rekke andre variable som ikke er direkte relatert til trening. Eksempelvis kommer ernæring etter trening inn som en nokså sentral variabel.  :)


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: amok20. mai 2004, 18:07
Du er flink 25års......  honnør  ::headbang::


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening20. mai 2004, 18:21
Du er flink 25års......  honnør  ::headbang::

 ::blush:: Takker og bukker.


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: LurrePer20. mai 2004, 23:34
Jeg kunne skapt en god diskusjon her, men har ikke tid akkurat nå. Vi får ta det en annen gang.


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: UpAndComming21. mai 2004, 07:11
Jeg kunne skapt en god diskusjon her, men har ikke tid akkurat nå. Vi får ta det en annen gang.

;D Det var dagens innlegg .....


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: small21. mai 2004, 09:04
 ::biggrin:: You go man 25års flinken.  :P


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: armyboy20. desember 2004, 00:58
hmm,mye nyttig..


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: TFrodo08. mars 2005, 17:32
leit mye du har skrivi da 25årstrening.. står respekt av deg ;)


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening08. mars 2005, 17:41
leit mye du har skrivi da 25årstrening.. står respekt av deg ;)

Takk skal du ha, jeg har vært en kranglefant ved et par anledninger, men jeg synes jeg lærer noe av det. Det er nettopp når vi bryner ulike teorier/hypoteser/erfaringer mot hverandre at vi kan se nye aspekter ved gamle fenomen og oppfatninger som vi har låst oss fast i.

Og jeg oppfordrer alle til å skrive forslag til artikler om trenings-kostholdstema de brenner for/er interessert i !! Blir et levende forum på den måten.


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Big T08. mars 2005, 17:49


Hyggelig at du hadde utbytte av den! Kanskje noen har synspunkt på dette med kortisol. Artikkelen sier ikke noe om hvilke treningsregime som over tid gir best anabol effekt, men dette er selvsagt også vanskeligere å måle.

Når det gjelder kortisol så mistenker jeg at den katabole effekten kortisol har er svært overdrevet. At det er en viss negativ effekt tror jeg på, men at det er så ille som mange skal ha det til tviler jeg på. Dessuten tror jeg det skal en del til før kroppen "sender" ut mye av det hormonet. (Dette er ikke det emne jeg kan mest om, så hvis jeg tar feil så gjerne motbevis meg, jeg trener nemlig på en slik måte at jeg håper kortisol er oppskrytt)
Uansett veldig bra jobbet 25årstrening!  ::2thumbsup::


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening08. mars 2005, 17:54


Når det gjelder kortisol så mistenker jeg at den katabole effekten kortisol har er svært overdrevet. At det er en viss negativ effekt tror jeg på, men at det er så ille som mange skal ha det til tviler jeg på. Dessuten tror jeg det skal en del til før kroppen "sender" ut mye av det hormonet. (Dette er ikke det emne jeg kan mest om, så hvis jeg tar feil så gjerne motbevis meg, jeg trener nemlig på en slik måte at jeg håper kortisol er oppskrytt)
Uansett veldig bra jobbet 25årstrening! ::2thumbsup::

Jo takk, er en stund siden jeg leste om dette nå, men du kan si at alle hormoner har en funksjon. Når det gjelder kort. og trening viser det seg også at et visst nivå av kortisol er nødvendig som en følge av treningen for at denne skal være effektiv, så har man sett på ratioen mellom anabole/katabole hormon for å diskutere hva som er optimalt...Mildt sagt komplisert om man søker en vitenskaplig holdbar teori om dette, men Fleck et al, 2004-"Designing Resistance Training programs" har en utmerket drøfting av dette.


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: SilverFox09. mars 2005, 09:30
All trening hvor hensikten er å øke muskelmassen er anaerob, derfor er det lengden og frekvensen av treningsøktene som er den sentrale trenings-variabelen for å unngå for høye verdier av kortisol. Forøvrig er selvsagt "manipulering" av hormon-nivå et spørsmål om en rekke andre variable som ikke er direkte relatert til trening. Eksempelvis kommer ernæring etter trening inn som en nokså sentral variabel. :)

Jeg personlig er enig i alt muskelbyggende trening i hovedsak skal være anaerob (fortrinnsvis mot slutten av arbeidssettet dah). Da er jo failurejunkier som meg heldig stillte..., men kan det sies om store deler av den type trening som fordres i f.eks. HST at den er utpreget anaerob?
OK litt melkesyre blir det seff produsert, men det skjer vel i praksis med alle trening over en viss innsats. Det er vel også lettere å utføre anaerobt arbeide med realivt lette vekter - en greier liksom å pine seg en stund lengre med 100 kilo i knebøy enn med 200....

En skal jo droppe vektene såpass i begynnelsen av hver mesosyklus, og ikke gå til failure, at jeg for min del har vansker for å tro at de øktene blir særlig anaerobe. Iallefall dersom en sammeligner det med type Dorian Yates-trening.

Skal en følge de anbefalingen som gis generelt i HST så er vektene i f.eks benkpress såpass lave at jeg heller ikke kan fatte og begripe at de pinglevektene er i stand til å påføre muskulaturen nevneverdig mikrotrauma (et artig ord foresten..). Aller er jo så opptatt av mikrotrauma liksom..... Jeg for min del har så mange traumer at jeg helst vil slippe å ha dem inni armer og bein også....... Dessuten skjer vel hypotetisk noe av "muskelveksten" - eller rettere sagt "tverrsnittsøkningen" i form av ekstracellulær økning av volum. Noe som innimellom blir brukt som forklaring på at byggere er mindre sterker enn styrkeløftere og sånn - relativt sett i forhold til muskelstørrelse på ellers like kropper seff. Mener også å ha sett dette brukt som forklaring på deler av "muskelminne-fenomenet".



Når det gjelder det du nevner over her - å avrunde med enten ett lett sett eller en lettere øvelse - så er jo det en praksis som fortsatt er meget utbredt.
For min del har det aldri vært gjennomtenkt, men det føles simpelthen godt å få pumpa ut skikkelig på det siste settet liksom..... Jeg er som kjent en av de primitive skapningene som fortsatt mener at ei trening ikke er riktig god dersom en ikke kejnner skikkelig at en faktisk har trent.....
Dessuten var det veldig inn på slutten av 80- og begynnelsen av 90-tallet å begynne med en middels tung introøvelse med god bevegelse (hantelpress) fulgt av en tung øvelse (benkpress) og avrunde med en lettere kontraksjonsøvelse (cross-over) - øvelsene er bare eksempevise.... Hvorvidt en skulle starte med "bevegelsesøvelsen" eller "styrkeøvelsen" var det nok ingen som kunne gi noe godt svar på, men de fleste valgte nok styrkeøvelsen" først..........
De som gjør det, meg inkludert, har om ikke annet ikke blitt mindre av det - I hope........


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: 25årstrening09. mars 2005, 11:43


Jeg personlig er enig i alt muskelbyggende trening i hovedsak skal være anaerob (fortrinnsvis mot slutten av arbeidssettet dah). Da er jo failurejunkier som meg heldig stillte..., men kan det sies om store deler av den type trening som fordres i f.eks. HST at den er utpreget anaerob?
OK litt melkesyre blir det seff produsert, men det skjer vel i praksis med alle trening over en viss innsats. Det er vel også lettere å utføre anaerobt arbeide med realivt lette vekter - en greier liksom å pine seg en stund lengre med 100 kilo i knebøy enn med 200....

En skal jo droppe vektene såpass i begynnelsen av hver mesosyklus, og ikke gå til failure, at jeg for min del har vansker for å tro at de øktene blir særlig anaerobe. Iallefall dersom en sammeligner det med type Dorian Yates-trening.

Skal en følge de anbefalingen som gis generelt i HST så er vektene i f.eks benkpress såpass lave at jeg heller ikke kan fatte og begripe at de pinglevektene er i stand til å påføre muskulaturen nevneverdig mikrotrauma (et artig ord foresten..). Aller er jo så opptatt av mikrotrauma liksom..... Jeg for min del har så mange traumer at jeg helst vil slippe å ha dem inni armer og bein også....... Dessuten skjer vel hypotetisk noe av "muskelveksten" - eller rettere sagt "tverrsnittsøkningen" i form av ekstracellulær økning av volum. Noe som innimellom blir brukt som forklaring på at byggere er mindre sterker enn styrkeløftere og sånn - relativt sett i forhold til muskelstørrelse på ellers like kropper seff. Mener også å ha sett dette brukt som forklaring på deler av "muskelminne-fenomenet".



Når det gjelder det du nevner over her - å avrunde med enten ett lett sett eller en lettere øvelse - så er jo det en praksis som fortsatt er meget utbredt.
For min del har det aldri vært gjennomtenkt, men det føles simpelthen godt å få pumpa ut skikkelig på det siste settet liksom..... Jeg er som kjent en av de primitive skapningene som fortsatt mener at ei trening ikke er riktig god dersom en ikke kejnner skikkelig at en faktisk har trent.....
Dessuten var det veldig inn på slutten av 80- og begynnelsen av 90-tallet å begynne med en middels tung introøvelse med god bevegelse (hantelpress) fulgt av en tung øvelse (benkpress) og avrunde med en lettere kontraksjonsøvelse (cross-over) - øvelsene er bare eksempevise.... Hvorvidt en skulle starte med "bevegelsesøvelsen" eller "styrkeøvelsen" var det nok ingen som kunne gi noe godt svar på, men de fleste valgte nok styrkeøvelsen" først..........
De som gjør det, meg inkludert, har om ikke annet ikke blitt mindre av det - I hope........

Flere av de spørsmålene du stiller kan vel bare besvares med mer forskning. Om laktatvediene ved de lettere ukene i HST gir optimale laktatverdier for det tiltenkte formål, og for en eventuell økning av veksthormon, blir et empirisk spørsmål. Personlig synes jeg det er bedre å trene 12-reppere med korte pauser i begynnelsen av en mikrosyklus, siden dette gir både bra belastning og mye melkesyre.

Dette med å avslutte med et ganske lett sett, et flush-sett, er omstridt, men det nevnte forsøket konkluderer klart med at det øker utskillelsen av veksthormon-hvilken effekt dette har for hypertrofi er litt uklart, men som du sier er det jo en praksis som svært, svært mange byggere har benyttet seg av (DCs widow-maker set for bein er vel den mest ekstreme varianten). Et motargument som særlig kommer fra mer tradisjonelle styrkeløft-trenere er at dette er uheldig pga Hibbske mekanismer (jeg må innrømme at jeg ikke har sett noen som helst god forklaring eller vitenskaplig belegg for dette, men det stammer nok fra den oppfatning at det siste settet i en basisøvelse også bør være det tyngste-nokså ulike forskningsresultat på dette forresten, hva gjelder styrkeøkninger). Personlig har jeg tro på å gjøre det akkurat slik du beskriver! Altså, å trene de tunge hovedøvelsene strikt og straight, også velge en sekundær øvelse for høye laktatverdier. En hypotese er at det siste også kan være med å redusere risikoen for skader.

Jeg filosoferte over dette med laktatverdier i artikkelen om Melkesyre og muskelvekst-en spekulativ artikkel, men noen av de nevnte referansene er faktisk ganske oppsiktsvekkende-jeg tror på faser med masse melkesyre i trening for hypertrofi-som du selv nevner er dette eldgammel "visdom" støttet av masse praktisk erfaring. nå begynner altså forskning å vise at dette kan ha svært gunstige virkninger...Jeg ser heller ikke noe i veien for å trene både tungt og mer moderat, det første for høy belastning, det siste for laktatverdier.


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Big T09. mars 2005, 12:52
Hmm ekstracellulær økning var ett nøkkelord i det innlegget ditt tricepsmann, men jeg skjønte ikke helt hva det var?


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: SilverFox13. mars 2005, 20:03
Hmm ekstracellulær økning var ett nøkkelord i det innlegget ditt tricepsmann, men jeg skjønte ikke helt hva det var?

Hm ja jeg var vel muligens litt upresis i formuleringen (ikke akkurat mitt spesialfelt dette som dere forstår...) Men den korte artikkelen under sier i korte trekk hva jeg mente. Mener å ha lest en brukbar artikkel av Charles Staley om det samme, men jeg finner den rett og slett ikke igjen... Får søke litt i mårra - nå har jeg vært på reisefot siden onsdag så jeg er litt slapp i hodet for å si det mildt....

Det som i allefall er sikkert er at "muskelmasse" kommer bemerkelsesvedig kjapt tilbake igjen når en tar opp igjen treninga etter et lengre avbrekk, og en flater også veeldig fort ut når en kutter ut treninga... i allefall om en har en del muskelvolum å miste dah.....

Why All Muscle Was Not Created Equal

By Joe DeFranco, Owner, Performance Enhancement Specialist DeFranco’s Training Systems.

Reprinted with the permission of Joe DeFranco – www.defrancostraining.com

Have you ever noticed an athlete in the weight room who is built like Tarzan, yet lifts weights better suited for Jane? Yet, there are other athletes who are every bit as strong and functional as they look. Although an athlete’s genetic make-up is always a factor, the answer to this discrepancy in strength and functionality of the muscle can also be due to the different types of training performed by different athletes. Although two athletes may possess similar physiques, the muscle they have built using their different training methods may not be the same. In other words, all muscular growth was NOT created equal! There are actually two very different types of hypertrophy that can take place within the muscle. Being aware of this helps to answer the question of why some athletes possess superhuman strength and others are “all show, no go.” The two types of hypertrophy to which I am referring are sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar hypertrophy.

Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is an increase in the volume of the non-contractile muscle cell fluid, sarcoplasm. This fluid accounts for 25-30% of the muscle’s size. Although the cross sectional area of the muscle increases, the density of muscle fibers per unit area decreases, and there is no increase in muscular strength (2). This type of hypertrophy is mainly a result of high rep, “bodybuilder-type” training (3).

One of the biggest problems I see with the training of power athletes (football players, baseball players, basketball players, wrestlers and even powerlifters) is too much emphasis on training in the 10 – 15 rep range. This type of training has its place, yet should not be the focal point for these athletes. For example, most football lineman benefit from added bulk to prevent from getting pushed around on the field. “Bodybuilding” methods, using these rep ranges, can be beneficial if incorporated during the season to prevent muscle mass loss, as well as after the season to add bulk, which may have been lost during the season. Also, there is some scientific evidence that states a bigger muscle may have a better chance of becoming a stronger muscle once maximal strength training methods are employed. The key to remember is that this type of hypertrophy has little to do with such explosive movements as hitting, running, throwing, jumping or performing a one-rep max. This is why professional bodybuilders, whose training mainly hypertrophies the Type IIA fibers and causes an increase in the non-contractile components of the muscle (sarcoplasmic volume, capillary density, and mitochondria proliferation) are not the fastest or even the strongest of all athletes. This is despite the fact that they generally have more muscle than any other class of athlete! I consider this type of hypertrophy to be form over function.

Myofibrillar Hypertrophy
Myofibrillar hypertrophy, on the other hand, is an enlargement of the muscle fiber as it gains more myofibrils, which contract and generate tension in the muscle. With this type of hypertrophy, the area density of myofibrils increases and there is a significantly greater ability to exert muscular strength (2). This type of hypertrophy is best accomplished by training with heavy weights for low reps (3). One must remember that the average football play lasts 4.5 seconds, it takes about 3 seconds to complete a 1 RM, it takes less than a second to swing a bat, less than a second to throw a punch and less than a second to jump for a rebound. As you can see, most athletic activities are explosive in nature. This is why it is imperative for athletes to incorporate maximal strength training methods (1-5 reps), which train the part of the muscle responsible for these explosive contractions, into their routines. Repetitions in the 1-5 rep range, using 85 – 100% of a 1RM, also have the added benefit of training the nervous system – which I feel is the most overlooked component of training the athlete. Some of the many benefits of training the nervous system are: increased neural drive to the muscle, increased synchronization of motor units, increased activation of the contractile apparatus, and decreased inhibition by the protective mechanisms of the muscle (golgi tendon organ) (1). These training methods also hypertrophy the pure fast twitch fibers – the high-threshold, Type IIB fibers. Incorporating these training methods into your routine at the right time will undoubtedly improve your muscles ability to generate more force and contract maximally during any sporting activity. In essence, myofibrillar hypertrophy is what I would term functional hypertrophy.

Conclusion

Although the human eye cannot tell these two types of hypertrophy apart, the difference will always become quite apparent as soon as it’s time for an athlete to put his/her muscle to use. As athletes and strength professionals, I feel we all have a responsibility to prevent ourselves from getting into the “3 sets of 10” rut. It is our job to educate ourselves, be creative, and put together the most result-producing programs available for our athletes or ourselves. This may mean incorporating both types of hypertrophy training into your routine, depending on your goal and training phase. But remember that no matter how bad those high-rep sets of leg extensions burn, they will never build the strength, power, and functional hypertrophy of a heavy set of squats or deads!

References

Poliquin, Charles. Modern Trends in Strength Training. Volume 1. QFAC Bodybuilding, 2001.

Siff, Mel C. and Yuri V. Verkhoshansky. Supertraining. Colorado: Denver, 1999.

Tsatsouline, Pavel. Power to the People. Dragon Door Publications, Inc., 2000.


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Big T13. mars 2005, 20:31
Interresant, men for en som gir litt f*** i hvor sterk man er og bare bryr seg om størrelsen hvor mange reps/sets anbefaler han egentlig? Kunne virke som om doggcrap var noe


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: SilverFox13. mars 2005, 22:13
Interresant, men for en som gir litt f*** i hvor sterk man er og bare bryr seg om størrelsen hvor mange reps/sets anbefaler han egentlig? Kunne virke som om doggcrap var noe

Ikke utenkelig det gitt.
Men det som vel i grunn sies er vel ganske enkelt at det skal noen repper til, og vel gjerne noen sett også - en må ganske enkelt oppnå et tilstrekkelig volum på treninga. Derfor ikke særlig overaskende at en av treningsmetoden til nevnte Staley er den såkalte EDT-metoden som gir "høyt" og konsentrert volum på treninga.

Det er jo foresten litt betegnende at en del byggere liksom tilsynelatende flater ut styrkemessig (1RM) til tross for at de fortsetter å øke muskelvolumet.
 
Det er jo vanvittig fokus på progresjon når trening omtales, og i de fleste tilfeller snakkes det om progresjon i form av økning i vektbelastningen. Desverre for oss vanlige dødelige er det relativt begrenset hvor lenge vi kan forsette å øke vektbelastningen. Jeg for min del kan ønske det så mye jeg bare vil, men jeg betviler at jeg noensinne vil greie kjøre strikte hantelcurls med mer en omlag 35 kilo. 5 kilo opp er rett og slett en vanvittig stor økning.
En repp opp, pr sett, sammenlignet med forrige makrosyklus er derimot ikke en umulighet. Dessuten kan jeg spille svært bredt på en progresjonsøkning i form av økt antall reps på vekter som i utgangspunktet hadde vært alt for lette for ett 5-reps-sett.

Selv er jeg tilhenger av å variere repps-regimet nokså systematisk gjennom makrosyklusen, men det er åpenbart at i allefall jeg føler et helt annet trykk i kroppen ved litt høyere reppsantall i noen uker (føler seg mer "spenstig" liksom...).
Ved lavere repps føler en seg ofte litt "flatere", men det er vel muligens da en legger på seg mer "kvalitetsmusker" som kan brukes til å muligens øke belastningen ørlitegrann ved neste "høyrepp-periode". :)


Tittel: SV: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Adicted27. juli 2005, 15:18
Det siger sakte inn i en trøg skalle.... godt det er skrevet og diskutert etter "moccaskje metoden" hehe :D

Bra jobba 25årserfaring! Honnør!!

BTW Er nok fler som vil få honnør her ser jeg for utfyllende info ;)


Tittel: Sv: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: henrikhardcoar23. juni 2009, 16:43
Ekstremt mye nyttig info. Rakk ikke (gidder ikke) å lese alt nå, men jeg tror jeg skal skrive det ut og ta meg god tid med å lese litt. Honnør!


Tittel: Sv: Muskelvekst og hormoner
Skrevet av: Kameralinsen13. juli 2009, 18:04
Mulig å oversette tråden til norsk for meg? ;D