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Trening => Doggcrap => Emne startet av: Lasse Christoffersen på 13. juni 2005, 10:14



Tittel: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:14
Ikke sladre til DC nå da ;)

Overanalyzing

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Im seeing a repetitive phenomenon with the people I train that I want to state here. Ive trained alot of people now in the last 2 years on the net and also in person previously. I keep noticing the same things-basically on how various trainees brain's work. When people contact me for training, the guys who have a big work ethic and believe in a system of training whether its mine or westside or 5x5 or whatever, and hammer it and hammer it hard come to me as big people already. These are the bodybuilders you see out there in the street. Big guys that you know lift, there is no doubt that they are bodybuilders. On the other hand I have gotten alot of guys who have been lifting 5-10 years and you would never know they lifted even once unless they made it a point to tell you about it (and many do--LOL). And Ill tell you what the overwhelming continual trait those guys have. THEY OVERTHINK THIS, OVERANALYZE, keep second guessing themselves, follow this routine this month and that routine the next, and Flex magazine the third month. It all depends on what they happen to read that week. HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW WHAT WORKS IF YOU SWITCH IT EVERY DAMN MONTH? Ive showed TPC some of these emails in the warehouse and he didnt realize the extent of what I was telling him about. Ive had a couple guys in the last 2 months who have been lifting for 5-10 years and by their pics it would be embarrassing to tell anyone that they actually lift. Both of these guys are sending me emails talking about iso-tension at the top of bicep curls, worrying up and down about the statics, should i flex the pinky finger inward to make more of a contraction on my alternate curl, should my forearm be perpendicular to the earths axis at the bottom of the shoulder press (you get the drift). I went off on one guy and felt bad about it after but he kept saying "well how I used to do it is..." and "well Ive always done it this way" My answer was "well why do you look like shit if your old way worked so well"? Noone will ever know who these trainees are because its my business only but I want them to read this to get it clear in their heads. If you double triple or quadruple your training weights in good safe form over the next year/s or so your basically (with diet) going to be double or triple your current muscular size. If your going to sit there and overanalyze this shit like its rocket science (which it isnt I dont care what anyone tries to make it out to be) and worry about things that really arent going to add up to pounds of muscle mass, then blame yourself when you never get there. Are you going to be a happy man at 50 years old when you look back and think "Wow I screwed up, I never looked like a bodybuilder, never achieved my goals, never got dramatically bigger, and its gone now.....IM too old to make up for that lost time" because thats where alot of you are heading if you dont get your heads on straight. I blame alot of the muscle magazines for this. Alot of articles are ghost written for pros or are solo articles by people who are 165lbs who never made a huge change in their physique themselves. They try to portray lifting weights as this huge science (and they splurge up their articles with 8 vowel words and searching thru the thesaurus to find a word that makes them look extremely intelligent)--I go back to the beggining of cycles for pennies on this---The absolute strongest you can make yourself in all exercises, coupled with food intake to eat your way up to the new musculature will allow you to hold the most muscle mass on your body that your genetics predetermine. You want to worry bout something? Worry about that damn logbook. Worry about staying uninjured in your quest. Worry about not missing any meals. Worry about somehow someway making yourself the strongest bodybuilder you can become. Im not talking singles here. Im talking 9-15 reps rest paused. A brute. A behemoth. A human forklift. I guess i had to use this post to vent because TPC saw me pissed off in the warehouse today after answering emails such as "Dante should I try to isolate the upper portion of the pec muscle and hold the peak contraction and flex hard at the top of every rep for about 5 seconds?" If you have been lifting many years with no muscle mass to show the last thing you need to worry about is peak contraction--GET THE DAMN WEIGHT UP AND BEAT THE LOGBOOK WITH BIG WEIGHT JUMPS (and then Ill and you will be happy)
 
 
 


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:14
Because Im frustrated Im making this a sticky

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I really dont understand this. Ive answered these questions over and over and over so many times in the last 4 years. Im starting to think I should just never write a post again as noone ever reads the damn things anyway. I went over all these in the 4 articles on Anabolic Extreme. They are answered time and time again on the Dogg Logg and Cycles for Pennies and the stickys up top.....Ive commented too many times already to people to stop the goddamn overanalyzing and worrying on statics and counting the negative seconds of every rep, yet every month people are still freaking out about these 2 factors.

1)CONTROL THE FREAKING WEIGHTS DOWNWARD DESCENT--thats all--forget the stopwatch, the stupidest thing I ever did was try to get people doing this correctly by telling them to go 4-6 seconds down---but I had too because when you got shit heavy weights in your hands and are fired up for your rest pause set and breathing like a locomotive, you tend to count off seconds really fast so 4-6 means actually in true life 2-3 seconds--my fault, I had no idea that everyone would get so anal about it and use stopwatches and training partners to count their negative part down

2)Statics---everyone freaks out about statics, am i doing them right? am I doing them wrong? I REALLY COULD GIVE A SHIT IF YOU DO STATICS OR NOT--THEY, I REPEAT THEY ARE THE LEAST PRODUCTIVE THING IN ALL MY METHODS. They might mean 2% and thats about it yet everyone on all these boards are freaking out about the statics. IN CAPITAL LETTERS BECAUSE I WANT THIS TO GET THRU EVERYONES HEAD, YOUR WEIGHT PROGRESSION (AND NOT STATICS AND EVERYTHING ELSE YOU WORRY AND OVERANALYZE) THAT YOU USE IN TRAINING IS THE ULTIMATE DETERMINING FACTOR IN ALL THIS. If this year your using 100lbs and you worry all about the negative and statics and next year your using 105lbs--GUESS WHAT....Your going to be small!!!! Crap gains! Zilch, nothing! If this year your using 100lbs and next year you busted your ass and are using 200lbs your going to be very close to double the muscle size you had! Are you getting it now? Just control the descent of your weights and be steadily explosive (but not bouncing) on the positive. With statics, they are an afterthought in your arsenal here. You use them for time under tension reasons and more so mentally to pysche yourself and convince yourself that you can toy with this weight. Yet some of you guys look at statics like its the be all end all. Beating your logbook is the priority here, statics is nothing more than a very slight extension of your set and should take on no more importance than that!

3)Slow negatives on deadlifts, heavy back movements and really heavy squats. Cmon guys who keep asking this same freaking question over and over---Do you think its very prudent common sense wise to do a 500lb deadlift and take 6 seconds on the negative??? I want control--i want you always feeling like you are powering the weight instead of it powering you. On a deadlift I dont even want you thinking about counting negative seconds, I want you just being safe, in good form, and a human forklift.......One more time--CONTROL!!!! You control the weight down with the determining factor being safety of the exercise and proper form. On a shoulder press that might mean a true 3-4 second negative and on a deadlift that might mean a 1 second negative--on a squat that might mean a true 2-4 second negative, on a preacher bench curl that might mean a true 6 second negative--I WANT CONTROL

4) Rest pausing on heavy back thickness and leg movements. The newbies keep questioning this over and over. I AM MAKING YOU INTO SOMETHING REMEMBER THAT. IM MAKING YOU INTO THE STRONGEST BODYBUILDER YOUR GENETICS WILL ALLOW AND WITH THAT WILL BE A TREMENDOUS INCREASE IN MUSCLE SIZE. Theres a huge and i means huge difference in doing a 185lbs deadlift for reps that some weak beginning bodybuilder is starting out doing and a 400-550lb for reps floor deadlift that an advanced bodybuilder will be doing. (im going to make you into an advanced bodybuilder so get it right now!) If you rookies out there think that you can do a 450lbs deadlift to failure for 8 reps and then take 15 deep breathes and start pulling again without huge risk of injury, your sadly mistaken. Your form because of the fatigue, tiredness and most of all trying to pull from a dead stop again 15 breathes later, is going to be so whacked trying to get that bar moving again that your asking for a major injury. With heavy leg movements the young, weak, starting out bodybuilders have no idea where your going with this again. Your 225lb squat for 8 reps to failure means shit compared to where your going to end up in the long run. So you might be able to do 225lbs rack it and take 15 deep breathes and do 3-4 more and then rest pause again and do 1-2 more. Do you think you are going to be able to do that with 400-500lbs on your back with your knees wrapped up tight with Inzer wraps........and doing everything in your power to stay in proper form so you dont get injured? This is why there are 2 sets for legs, a brutal 4-8 (or 6-10 if its leg press or hack) and then the widowmaker set of 20 reps?
I mean can you tell im getting very very frustrated here. All of these things have been said time and time again by me and a whole slew of my trainees on boards yet its not clicking or they arent reading it......or they just want it spoon fed to them. To see the guys on this board have to answer the same repetitive questions over and over to every new guy when the info is a click away, pains me to no end.


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:15
If you guys ever knew

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how many times I have to bite my lip on other boards you would laugh. Whenever I see someone complain or overanalyze this stuff to the earths end (like simple things like breathing during the negative-------gee whiz guy, how bout taking a very deep breath of air on the negative and blowing it out forcibly on the positive---its really not that hard)
Or the constant complaining like "christ i used to incline press (*yea with a 8 inch bounce and your partner pulling up 40lbs of it) 225x6 and now with controlling the descent I was only able to do 185 x 8 first time out---well shucks Bucky welcome to the world of lifting correctly to actually gain muscle mass. Guess what? Im going to make you so strong in such a short time that your old poundages will be a distant memory and even better you're training partner wont be getting bigger biceps spotting you and you wont be cheating your ass off doing it.
So many times after these posts i start typing "this type of training is not for you, do something else" or "take up checkers as you dont have to be hardcore in that sport" and I end up deleting it due to being PC.
FH coined the phrase "clusterfuck" training and I have to just sit back and laugh when I see that post on bodybuilding.com "MY 5x5, HST, DFT, DFST, DC, Westside Hybrid" .....Huh? 6 months down the road how the hell do you know what actually worked and what didnt? Talk about overanalyzing your buck 63 ass off. The one way ticket to being a shit bodybuilder is chronic "overanalyzing and wondering if what your doing is right" so much so that you change/switch it up constantly and "never find out what truly is actually working" .....the absolutely best statements concerning DC training werent said by myself, they were said by Massive G. This type of training isnt for newbies, its not for rookies, its for people that have tried numerous ways, know their body very well, that dont have that "false sense of intensity" that alot of 2-3 year lifters have, and it just makes sense to them after reading through it all.
Id much rather train a 200lb guy who is going to go at this 100% because he hasnt been able to get there "his way", so he is going to do everything I say to the tee.........than some 220lb guy who saw some pics online of someone I train and feels that he has to get on the bandwagon or he could be missing the boat yet is still mixed up inside in the bodybuilding route he should go. The suckiest thing about training bodybuilders for myself is having to debrainwash people and get them away from that Flex magazine "old school, spindle training, isolating the outer quadrant of section B of the pectoral with incline flyes (pinky twist), always changing exercises each workout to keep the body off balance-BULLSHIT. Which alot of times was written by a guy who is 45 and has been lifting for 25 years yet never made it over 177lbs. Always changing exercises? How many incredible mass exercises are there for quads? Five to Eight? Hacks, Leg press, Squats, and maybe lunges with a barbell on your back and then slight variations of each? They make it sound like you have 165 to choose from. If you squat 385 for 8 today and then change things up for the next 2.5 months with hacks and leg presses, one leg leg presses, lunges, front squats etc etc and then go back to a squat and get 380 x 8, have you gained anything? NO YOU JUST WASTED A FREAKING LEG WORKOUT PRETTY MUCH. If for the next 6 years you periodically squat lets say 30 times (5 times a year) and your constantly in the 370 to 390 range for 7-9 reps, are your legs going to be much larger? You sure as hell changed things up alot though, even though your quads havent gained crap. The point Im trying to get across is this "You can crap chicken into a bucket, it doesnt mean your Colonel Sanders" (Ok nevermind, I have no idea what that means, Im just very hungry and need to eat and I couldnt think of a way to end this rant in a cool way)


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:22
Treningsplitter
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"I probably should of written this a while back but I see alot of people asking about it now. Schedules. Most of the people I personally train I have them on the monday wenesday friday monday scheme with bodyparts split like this
a)
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
Back width
BAck thickness

b)
biceps
forearms
calves
hams
quads

What is important about that is there is always a day between workouts and that lends itself to all important recovery/rest. Another variation of this above that some of the really heavy trainers I train like is Tues (full workout) Thurs (full workout) Sat (half workout) Sun (other half workout)

But some people have hectic haphazard schedules and they either have to do extremely short workouts or they skip lifting altogether. Obviously I would rather not have them skip workouts. What I do with those people works right along the same lines as the M W F M scheme I always use--almost the same frequency with extremely short workouts. And if anyone I personally train likes this schedule better I have no problem with them going over to it. It is Mon Tues Thurs Fri (with weekends off) or something to that effect according to their schedule and the body is split up like this:

A)
biceps
forearms
back width
back thickness

B)
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps

C)
Calves
Hams
Quads


So you see that on Friday biceps and back is hit again and then the next week workout b will be hit twice and during week 3 workout c will be hit twice. The frequency of bodyparts hit is almost like the original M W F M plan. The downsides to this way are the obvious non day off between workouts and you have to be very very careful with order of exercises on this plan. For example I would never have you doing full range deadlifts the day after a squat day--you would be destroyed. You have to look over the whole scheme and make sure your back thickness exercise is not going to be effected by your hamstring or quad exercise. I would probably skip stiff legged deadlifts for hamstrings totally during this routine because of the heavy back thickness exercises. I would probably rotate seated standing and lying leg curls for someone doing this. Your workouts though would be 25-45 minutes tops and thats tops and your out of there. The bad points of setting it up this way is that you lose that whole day of rest between workouts and Ive seen over time that most people seem to gain a slight bit better with that full day of rest. The other bad point is although the frequency of bodyparts trained is similiar, its a bit less over time (bodyparts trained 80 times a year in the M W F scheme and 69 times a year in the second scheme above) .........So you guys with busy busy schedules who need to get in there and out fairly quickly could feasibly use the latter schedule. TPC uses the second schedule and loves it and reluctantly, Im going to have to go to this new schedule soon even though my best gains are off of the original MWF--my daily schedule is getting overwhelming with work and my time is getting very very limited.

PS: I put back/bis before chest/shoulder/tri in the rotation because alot of people get really sore in the shoulder/chest area the day after chest. This can make it very hard sometimes on back width and back thickness exercises (especially back width) and Im trying to keep injuries to a minimum. The downside to this is when leg day falls directly after chest day, you are going to have to stretch out thoroughly in the delt/chest area to get your shoulders/arms on the bar for squatting"


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:23
Cutter, Bulker, Cutting, Bulking-WHAT A CROCK OF BULLSHIT

If i never hear these words again in my life it will be too soon. I cringe everytime i hear someone (straight from bb.com) say "im coming off a bulker and now im doing a cutter"..What the hell is that?..that is the most idiotic concept ever! So what your doing is taking 2 steps forward for 4 months and then 1.5 steps backward for 4 months and repeating over and over? Talk about a waste of valuable time! Half your freaking year is gone to hell because your cutting for half of it and gaining no muscle. How bout a novel concept for you? How bout getting dramatically larger over time with huge food (protein) intake and super heavy training but adhering to carb cuttoffs and doing cardio (for increasing hunger and keeping bodyfat at bay reasons) so that you stay lean!!!!!!!!!! Gee whiz, might that be a better way?!

Bulker: An Excuse to become a fat fuck for the sake of beleiving your putting on muscle mass to others and yourself (and you probably are but at a 50/50 ratio of muscle to fat--wow thats awesome!)

Cutter: 3-5 months of wasted muscle building time (trust me youll be building very little muscle mass during this) in the quest of turning yourself back from a fat slob you turned yourself into to someone presentable.

THINK ABOUT IT!!!! Your 200lbs, eat like a 250lb guy to get freakshow bigger, and train like a rhino with heavy weights to get larger but also do everything in your power (green tea, cardio, carb cuttoffs) to keep at a bodyfat percentage that your proud of or can live with. This is all about turning your body into a muscle building fat burning blast furnace!
If you do bulking and cutting for the next 2 years and with all those "cutting cycles" adding up to a years time, guess what you just gave up a year of lifting--one year of nonexistant muscle mass accumalation. Thats like lifting for the next 6 years and you only get 3 years of productivity out of it. See the problem is, alot of people try to stay lean year round while also tryng their hardest to put on muscle mass and they do it all wrong. They eat like a 190lber trying to get to 250lbs and think that--by some miracle that will get them there. This is all about becomeing a food processing machine here. Take in a surplus (protein/food), create a demand to put on muscle (seriously heavy lifting/DC training) and then taking care of excesses and burning them off (carb cuttoffs/cardio/thermogenisis)----eating and training like a 300lbs offseason behemoth but doing everything else in your power to be that guy walking around at 7-14% bodyfat (whatever floats your boat)....See its not that hard, just think it out....but most of all dont waste your freaking time taking 2 steps forward and 1.5 steps backward....this is about constant forward progress. If I hear anyone say "cutter" or "bulker" again on this board, you get the official title of "bodybuilding.com guy", like a scarlet letter. This is constant bulking and cutting at the same time and you dont forsake one for the other unless your competing for a show.
You turn yourself into a machine and you keep that machine evolving. Does anyone in this forum actually beleive that if you are 200lbs and doing cardio 3-4x a week at 30-45 minutes a pop but eating 400-500 grams of protein and a shitload of food to get bigger that - YOUR ACTUALLY NOT GOING TO GET BIGGER BECAUSE OF THAT CARDIO? If your not getting bigger then your either not eating enough or your a young guy whose metabolism is so fast that your one of the lucky ones who doesnt have to do cardio. Thats another story I have to write about one of these days--Cardio. Every time I hear a guy tell me...."I just cant eat enough"....I ask him "are you doing cardio?", and he gives me that puzzled look and thinks "why should I do cardio? I have trouble gaining weight and eating enough".....BINGO!!!!! What do you think cardio does? You get up in the morning and start your day with some cardio I guarentee youll be starving the rest of the day and be eating like a damn horse. IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME. Cardio is a two way street--increases hunger and keeps you lean. You have trouble getting bigger? Add cardio first thing in the morning after 30 grams of protein in water and some bcaa's and watch yourself eat the rest of the day! You wont be missing meals, youll be starving. Which leads me to getting off this computer because im starving.I wrote this very fast because im late--so sorry bout that
 


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:26
DC om intensitet:
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Here lets quit bullshitting around and lollygagging it. Ive yet to see someone do a 20 rep compound quad exercise IN TRUE DC TRAINING INTENSITY who didnt feel like a bus hit them the next day. So Im sorry to be so blunt but you guys that arent feeling anything maybe shouldnt even be in this forum because Im telling you right now, you do not have what it takes to do this right. Ive trained enough people to tell who half-asses this and who seriously goes to the well and back. Just the fact that you said "did my 20 rep set" tells me a great deal-If you really pushed the limits you would of said "tried my 20 rep set yesterday and only got 18" BECAUSE IT WAS SO BRUTALLY HARD. Just 2 years ago there were only hardcore people doing DC training and now there seems to be a "hey lets jump on the DC bandwagon because everyone else seems to be gaining" bunch of lame ass trainers doing it now--IM HERE TO BE THE ASS IN ALL THIS BECAUSE IM NOT LETTING IT HAPPEN. GO GET YOUR HEAVIEST AND I MEAN ABSOLUTE HEAVIEST HACK SQUAT FOR 10 REPS YOUVE EVER DONE---now take that weight and I DONT CARE HOW THE FUCK YOU DO IT, I DONT CARE IF YOU DIE WHILE DOING IT, I DONT CARE IF YOU TAKE 20 BREATHES (WITHOUT RACKING IT) BETWEEN EVERY REP FROM 11 TO 20 BUT YOU FIND SOME WAY -SOMEHOW TO GET TO 20, AND if AFTER THAT STILL---YOU COME IN HERE THE NEXT MORNING AND SAY "HEY IM STILL NOT SORE"---Ill quit

DC om negativer:
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Alot of people ask me how I come to conclusions on things.....alot of all this you can deduct from what you see going on around you at gyms and from just watching people. You can sit there and study medline all day long but until you have a practical brain to think how it pertains to bodybuilding, your not going to get very far in applying it. For example alot of people freak out about the controlled negative on reps in DC training and why the heck its done. Besides what science agrees with, think of certain instances of hobbies or jobs with repetitive movements with the repeated same load. Boat rowers, sawing lumberjacks and gymnasts. They all do repetitive movements with the same load, a boat or canoist rower is trying to power along a boat as fast as he can, a sawing lumberjack is using power to saw down a tree, a gymnast does repeated movements with bodyweight. All are pushing the limits trying to use as much power as possible for the task at hand. Which one of those three has a discernable musculature? Boat rowers dont have huge backs, sawing lumberjacks dont have huge arms but gymnasts always have that musculature. They sure arent eating to get huge and most likely they arent doing incredibly heavy weight training but you can always see the musculature on a gymnast. Why? Well which one of those three does controlled negative movements? The rowers and sawers are just using positive movements and it does virtually nothing for their musculature (science agrees with that theory-concluding that the positive movment is a strength/priming phase and the eccentric is where the magic happens)--the gymnasts on the other hand are all doing heavy eccentric and controlled negative work (iron cross/rings, pommel horse etc etc etc)--the moral of the story is your whole thinking in all this should get to the point where your curling a weight up just for the simple reason of controlling the descent downward so you can get bigger

DC om bulking:
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There was a study some years back which included 3 groups--elite sumo wrestlers who did no weight training whatsoever, advanced bodybuilders and advanced powerlifters--about 20 in each group. Now there is a lot of variables here but they took the lean muscle mass of each group and divided it by their height in inches. Surprisingly the sumo wrestlers came out well ahead of the powerlifters (2nd) and the bodybuilders (very close 3rd). This is a group who did no weight training at all but engorged themselves with food trying to bring their bodyweight up to dramatic levels. How is a group that is doing no weight training having more muscle mass per inch of height than powerlifters and bodybuilders? For anyone that doubts food is the greatest anabolic in your arsenal, you better get up to speed and on the same page as what my trainees have found out. Gee now what would happen if you actually ate to get dramatically larger like a sumo, but actually weight trained like a powerbuilder (which is what we train like), and also did enough cardio to keep bodyfat at bay while doing all this? Are you guys coming around to how I think yet....in how to become the biggest bodybuilder at the quickest rate but keeping leaness on that journey?




Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:29
DC om prioriteringer, Geir Borgan Paulsen og mye annet:
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"These same guys think Im a miracle worker that can somehow add 80lbs of muscle mass on their frame while losing 30lbs of fat while keeping incredibly lean thruout the journey to get there. Well guess what? YOU FUCKED UP. Want to know the fastest way to walk around at 250 ripped--THE ABSOLUTELY G'DAMN FASTEST WAY TO GET THERE? TAKE 2 YEARS AND EAT HUGE AMOUNTS OF FOOD, AND TRAIN WITH BRUTALLY HEAVY WEIGHTS, AND BECOME A BIG FAT OFFENSIVE LINEMAN LOOKING GUY AT 330LBS....AND NO IT WONT BE PRETTY...AT ALL. CARDIO WOULD BE NOTHING MORE THAN HELPING YOUR APPETITE ALONG AND MOST OF ALL DONT DO ANYTHING THAT COULD POSSIBLY EVEN IMPEDE THE SLIGHTEST IN MUSCLE MASS GAIN. Just eat copious amounts of food (600 grams of protein) and bring your bodyweight up the charts which will allow you leverage and strength gains to allow you use the incredible weights you have to use in the gym to accomplish this. Then after being at that level for density reasons for awhile, you can slowly take it down and I mean slowly and most likely have the most muscle mass gain your genetics allowed in that time frame. That is the fastest way in the shortest time to get there. But definitely not the most desirable but truth is truth. Noone wants to look like a fat slob even if it means the end result will be much closer to their ideal.  Im advising you get your freaking head on straight if you want this so bad. That means extreme food intake pronto, with the heaviest weights in good form that you can use progressively, extreme stretching and enough cardio that it keeps you at a leaness your satisfied with as you get dramatically larger. This sport isnt unlike a career. You have to set yourself up early so you can be right where you want to be late. Theres alot of you guys 35-45 years old in this forum, some that I even train, that think they want it but really dont have what it takes to go get it. I see it in their workouts they send me (they take the easy comfortable road never pushing the limits) and for those that I dont train I sometimes see it in your posts---you just dont have what it takes. I can only provide a guide to get there, I cant create an inner drive for you.
You have to start thinking in terms of point B from point A. Do you really think that eating 3000 calories with 225 grams of protein and doing the Weider "confusion training principle" to keep your body offguard will make your 175lbs into 250lbs of rock granite monstrosity? Every year of training is so damn important. If you just trained for a whole year and only gained 2lbs of muscle mass, you just pretty much wasted a productive year of training--its gone--its lost and you arent getting that year back.

Three weeks ago I was contacted by someone in his early 40's who had been lifting for many years, weighed about 170lbs and showed me a picture of Geir Borgan Paulsen and said thats what he wanted to look like and can i get him there?!. Laughable. Geir Borgan Paulsen is 50 years old and looks freaking phenomenal. He is a tiny bit (and i mean every so slightly tiny bit smaller) than he was when he competed in his 30's. Instead of wasting years and years of lifting getting absolutely nowhere, Geir spent his 20's and 30's eating huge amounts of food and training with heavy heavy weights so that he could walk around all thru his 30's, 40's and now 50 years old jacked to the hilt. Not many people have a better front double biceps than Geir no matter what age they are.....here he is http://www.nutritionoutlet.nu/galle...002/borgan.html


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:31
Her er et innlegg av Dante, hvor han svarer på et innlegg av en som kaller seg Rippedchief. Rippedchief synes Dante legger opp DC-programmet altfor hardcore osv:
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rippedchef I think you looked way way too deeply into my post. Im a firm believer that bodybuilding is AND ONLY IS 1 hour a day 3 days a week (besides the obvious tedious eating).....my point is this--dont pipe dream all this. If you truly want it then for that one hour 3 times a week, train the way you know you have to the absolute hardest and dont miss the meals you need to eat to get there. Besides that have an eclectic lifestyle and be varied with your interests. I get so sick of people who say they want something but then dont think it out or apply how to get there. If anyone on this board ...(besides their 3x a week training and obvious meals) --is thinking about bodybuilding 24/7 then I would say you are a pretty damn shallow person that needs psychological help to become less self absorbed. No doubt about it.
This is like the person I hear saying "I want to own my own business", and never attempts it....or someone who tells everyone they wish they could find someone special in their life, but dont put the effort in trying to find that someone. You took my statement of "paying your dues" way way way below surface value Ripped Chef. It doesnt mean 24/7 bodybuilding at all. It means doing things the right way as it pertains to that goal in the small amount of time bodybuilding should make up in your life. If someone on this board states that they want to be a great bodybuilder, find a great wife, be successful owning their own business, and help people in need then I expect them to do the things neccessary to
1)be a great bodybuilder (which is 3-5 hours a week of correct training (no going thru the motions pipedreaming) and 6 meals a day)
2)talking and making inroads to the dating scene, making yourself available and searching out good qualities in women that you meet to find that ideal woman
3)Taking the chance to open their own business and studying, researching and applying what they learn to make it successful
4)going out of your way to perform random acts of kindness so you can and do help people in need.

This post wasnt about obsessing about being a bodybuilder at all and I feel awful for anyone who foolishly did that to their life, this post is about goals and actually having the fortitude to attain them. No one goal whether its bodybuilding or being rich or finding the perfect mate should be 24/7 or the main focal point of your life. But seriously, if you want something in life badly then do it right, dont go thru the motions and tell people you are doing it, do it! Maybe this post looked like it was a putdown to 35-45 year old bodybuilders to you. It wasnt meant to be. The message relayed should of been ok your 35-45 and you want it now but youve been spinning your wheels for 10-15 years. You are now on the fastrack plan because youve lost many productive years toward this goal, if you really want this then you have to do everything right and that means starting right now. (and again this means the 3x a week you train and your 6 meals you eat a day).....the opposite is the guy who has been eating 3-4 meals a day and skipping/missing his other meals and he half asses it thru his workouts and all of a sudden he looks up and he is now 33 years old and he started lifting when he was 20. Ill tell you what. If I told everyone I wanted to be a doctor after high school and then i half assed it thru medical school, flunking out of classes, skipping classes, took off whole semesters partying and I found myself still at 35 years old going thru school, I would say thats not a very good plan of applying yourself....and the same thing goes with bodybuilding.


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:46
Paying your dues!

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This post is for everyone in this forum--its very important to read over--VERY IMPORTANT. Want to know the average trainee that comes to me? He is 35-45 years old and after 10-15 years of lifting weighs 175 to 210lbs. He looks at me as the guy that somehow can pull a bunny out of a hat and make him that 250lb ripped bodybuilder walking the streets.... where he couldnt even get close to that level by himself. He is scrambling around because he doesnt want to get to 50 years old never feeling what it was like to walk thru a crowd and people gawk, stare, and point because he is a damn good bodybuilder. Well what the hell have you been doing all these years?!?!?! You should of put in your f*^&ing dues like the rest of us. These same guys think Im a miracle worker that can somehow add 80lbs of muscle mass on their frame while losing 30lbs of fat while keeping incredibly lean thruout the journey to get there. Well guess what? YOU FUCKED UP. Want to know the fastest way to walk around at 250 ripped--THE ABSOLUTELY G'DAMN FASTEST WAY TO GET THERE? TAKE 2 YEARS AND EAT HUGE AMOUNTS OF FOOD, AND TRAIN WITH BRUTALLY HEAVY WEIGHTS, AND BECOME A BIG FAT OFFENSIVE LINEMAN LOOKING GUY AT 330LBS....AND NO IT WONT BE PRETTY...AT ALL. CARDIO WOULD BE NOTHING MORE THAN HELPING YOUR APPETITE ALONG AND MOST OF ALL DONT DO ANYTHING THAT COULD POSSIBLY EVEN IMPEDE THE SLIGHTEST IN MUSCLE MASS GAIN. Just eat copious amounts of food (600 grams of protein) and bring your bodyweight up the charts which will allow you leverage and strength gains to allow you use the incredible weights you have to use in the gym to accomplish this. Then after being at that level for density reasons for awhile, you can slowly take it down and I mean slowly and most likely have the most muscle mass gain your genetics allowed in that time frame. That is the fastest way in the shortest time to get there. But definitely not the most desirable but truth is truth. Noone wants to look like a fat slob even if it means the end result will be much closer to their ideal. And these guys 35-45 years old want me to keep them pretty boy lean and wave the magic wand and make them into Milos Sarcev after they pretty much just wasted 10-15 years of training.
I dont like using myself for an example but I will here. I started training at about 20 at 137lbs and predominantly spent the next 15 years eating tremendous amounts of food, training with very heavy weights but keeping active so I am at a leaness I personally am satisfied with. I topped out at about 303lbs and but currently hang around 283-288 because thats what I like to be at. I put my dues in here. I might jump in a show if time allows but because of my schedule currently we will have to see how that works out. Mainly Im looking forward to the day I can kind of relax and not push the limits like I have all these years. The 6 meals a day every day, and the war with the logbook along with lugging around 285-300lbs sometimes becomes very tedious. I go to bed at nite thinking exactly what Im going to do and what all this hard work will easily allow myself to do when I decide to crank the dial downward. Cardio will be done 5-6 times a week for health and bodyfat reasons and that will take priority. Training will be for straightsets (still using the logbook) but Ill do one (maybe two) exercises per bodypart with one workset (after warmups) for 11-15 reps. Quads Ill do sets all at 20 reps up to my heaviest 20 most likely on squats, leg press and smythe squats to keep glute and all leg mass. Ill still train as heavy as i can in those rep ranges and try to beat the logbook to gain slowly but my training is going to be much easier. Ill still extreme stretch and do everything else but Ill train in a straight set mode with the logbook. My workouts will be tremendously short and this will be very fun. Eating will be 4-5 meals a day and I look forward to that the most. Im so sick of stuffing myself that its so damn easy to eat high protein and little carbs for me its ridiculous. A steak and veggies or lean chicken and fruit will be meals I enjoy, and Ill no longer sit down and force feed myself thank god. Prescription low dose testosterone and oxandralone (and probably gh) will most likely be used and Ill stay on that the rest of my life for health and quality of life reasons. ****The reasons men absolutely disenegrate from 40 to 60 is because their natural testosterone goes in the toilet and their estro levels go north and with that comes rapid aging, fat gain, muscle loss, and many bad health related problems (heart problems etc)....This is an article for another day but the pro bodybuilders who have had heart problems in their 40's, 50's and 60's were predominantly long time AS users who had cleaned out many years previous to that. Well what happened? Their test levels were severely diminished and their test/estro ratio was skewered even more so than lifetime natural men. A decade or years of flipflopped test/est levels and (in my opinion) your asking for heart (hdl/ldl/cholesterol) problems. Many people notice their hair falls out among other problems at the times of highest estro in the body (just when they get off a cycle)....take the time to study medline/NEJM of what high estro levels and low testosterone levels does to the health of a man and you might have a huge, huge eye opening and you lifetime naturals who are into your 40's might just be scrambling to get on HRT.
Back to the subject on hand here. So what will all this hard work for the past 15 years allow me to do? I'm in my mid 30's now so for the rest of my 30's and thru my 40' and 50's i can pretty much walk around at 250lbs hard as a rock at a very low bodyfat percentage. Ive set myself up so that will be very very easy. I actually have to do much less than everything I do now (except cardio) to be there. Ill use guys in this forum for examples, Inhuman and massive G are both around 5'9", 5'10" and are offseason 280 to 300. They have spent the time and food consumption and paid their dues to get there. Massive G I believe is mid 30's and Inhuman is early 40's I believe. Both these guys will be able to crank this down and enjoy walking around with full abs, hard as granite with veins everywhere at 240-260lbs. They have set themselves up and paid their dues in their 20's and 30's to do that. You guys that are 35-45 years old who want this but weigh 175-210lbs are playing catchup and are so behind the race its sad. Babygetoboy is 24, UsMuscle is 19 or 20 and both are smooth right now and definitely offseason bulked up, but guess what--both of those guys are going to be walking around at 28-30 years old if they want looking freaking incredible because they put the time in early on to get to that point. Lou Silverback Joseph is 25 and has bulked up to 263lbs, if Lou decided to never compete again he could walk around at 5'6 225lbs jacked and peeled (which is a house) the rest of his 20's and 30's and enjoy the fruits of his labors. My point of this post is to get guys in their early 20's to think, to get guys who just blew 10 years of training who are in their 30's to think, and to get guys who just blew 10-15 years of training who are in their 40's to think. Am I advising bulking up? No that was a hypothetical example. Im advising you get your freaking head on straight if you want this so bad. That means extreme food intake pronto, with the heaviest weights in good form that you can use progressively, extreme stretching and enough cardio that it keeps you at a leaness your satisfied with as you get dramatically larger. This sport isnt unlike a career. You have to set yourself up early so you can be right where you want to be late. Theres alot of you guys 35-45 years old in this forum, some that I even train, that think they want it but really dont have what it takes to go get it. I see it in their workouts they send me (they take the easy comfortable road never pushing the limits) and for those that I dont train I sometimes see it in your posts---you just dont have what it takes. I can only provide a guide to get there, I cant create an inner drive for you.
You have to start thinking in terms of point B from point A. Do you really think that eating 3000 calories with 225 grams of protein and doing the Weider "confusion training principle" to keep your body offguard will make your 175lbs into 250lbs of rock granite monstrosity? Every year of training is so damn important. If you just trained for a whole year and only gained 2lbs of muscle mass, you just pretty much wasted a productive year of training--its gone--its lost and you arent getting that year back. Three weeks ago I was contacted by someone in his early 40's who had been lifting for many years, weighed about 170lbs and showed me a picture of Geir Borgan Paulsen and said thats what he wanted to look like and can i get him there?!. Laughable. Geir Borgan Paulsen is 50 years old and looks freaking phenomenal. He is a tiny bit (and i mean every so slightly tiny bit smaller) than he was when he competed in his 30's. Instead of wasting years and years of lifting getting absolutely nowhere, Geir spent his 20's and 30's eating huge amounts of food and training with heavy heavy weights so that he could walk around all thru his 30's, 40's and now 50 years old jacked to the hilt. Not many people have a better front double biceps than Geir no matter what age they are.....here he is http://www.nutritionoutlet.nu/galle...002/borgan.html
What Im hoping to relay to you slackers and dreamers that are in this forum is that you have to put your time in and pay your dues in this sport. Your 2-3lbs gain a year arent going to get it done so unless you want to get to 55 years old and look back and think "wow besides the people I told and myself, noone even knew I was a bodybuilder and I never made it"....you better get your ass in gear and your head on right and get this done now. Gaining fat is easy but if you never lifted how long would it take for you to gain 80lbs of fat from 175 to 255lbs? Probably a year and you would have to forcefeed yourself to get there. Just think how long it takes to put on 80lbs of muscle mass which is an extremely "hard to come by" commodity. This sport is about extremes--using weights you havent used previously, taking in amounts of food to build greater muscle mass-in amounts you never have done previously, and doing the cardio to keep you at an acceptable offseason training bodyfat that keeps you happy. Get your act together and think this all out or quit your complaining and dreaming and take up tennis.


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:47
Blasting And Cruising Clarified

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Cruising--I want to clear some things up about this. As much as I like people to keep the training in correct format because Ive experimented with this stuff so much and I think I have a feel for what is working best, with blasting and cruising it can be individualistic.

With Natural guys, they usually go 5 weeks to 14 weeks blasting and then take a 2 week cruise--the norm seems to be somewhere between 7 weeks blasting and 12 weeks blasting. You read this by being in tune with your body and when you start feeling worn out and not really wanting to give the logbook an ass kicking--its time to cruise. But dont make a major mistake that some nattys do which is simply refusing to take a day off. Sometimes that rectifies the whole situation right there. At that moment because of various problems, lack of , stress, etc you read that as a time to cruise but basically all you need is to skip a workout and pick up the schedule on the next day and your right back to normal. Now if you take a day off and you get that 3-4 days of straight rest and still feel listless and unmotivated, hey then its time to cruise. I will give you some examples of what some of my nat trainees do

7 weeks blasting 2 weeks cruising
12 weeks blasting 2 weeks cruising
5 weeks blasting 7 days cruising
8 weeks blasting 7-10 days cruising

As you can see above its personal choice how long you want to blast and cruise. Some guys take the 2 weeks cruise some guys like it shorter. Its up to you. I also have some guys that train pretty hard with straight sets during this time (but short of failure) and some guys that kind of just wing it (either way is going to work--your just maintaining)

For my enhanced trainees the situation is a little different. Alot of this is all done by personal preference and how you morally stand on the super supplement issue. The most important thing to remember is during a cycle that there comes a time where your endo test is dropping (well its always dropping but read ahead) and estro side effects are coming on fast. Most of the time this big ratio skewering is most prominent between weeks 3 and 8. And to pinpoint it further I would suggest that right around weeks 5-7 is the key time. Alot of my trainees can actually feel this point during their cycles. Your appetite starts lessening, you feel a change in androgen benefits according to your body (hardness decreases slightly, smoothing out, lethargy), your temper increases (most likely due to the estro/test skewered ratio--(the same bitchiness alot of guys get when they use clomid)--and your attitude toward workouts and destroying the logbook starts decreasing more and more (over many weeks).....You really have to know your body well to recognize these signs but someone who has been around the block for awhile will definitely. So what do most guys do at this point that dont follow my methods? They up the dose slightly and it gets them gaining again but also most likely is going to make it living hell when they get off finally. (If they get off is what i should say---and that right there raises more problems....if you fix these problems by continually upping the dose over time, where are you going to go? How much toxicity and abuse will you be putting yourself thru a year down the road to continue making gains? Thats why I kind of chuckle when I hear guys say "fuck that I make my best gains after week 5 or so and thats why i do 16 week cycles"--well of course you do you upped the dose and every time you up the dose youll override that endo test drop and continue making gains. In the long run where is that going to leave you though? Your going to have to abuse the hell out of yourself to put more muscle mass on your body. So what do you do? Your job is to decide in the context of my methods what is best for you. If thats one cycle a year so be it. If thats being on continually for years and years thats your choice. All I ask is that you do one simple thing. Always keep this following thought in the back of your mind with whatever path you choose thats right for you concerning super supplements. YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO TRY TO KEEP YOURSELF REGULATED HPTA WISE. Whats the best way to do that? Never use super supplements. Whats the best way to do that if you do use super supplements? Use everything at your disposal to send signals to the hpta at intermittent times. Ive stated many times what i think someone who is using 1 or 2 cycles a year should do, 4-8 weeks blasting and 2 weeks cruising. So if it was one cycle and one only this year you would do something akin to 4-8 weeks on, 2 weeks antiestrogens and hcg and then 4-8 weeks on again and pct therapy again and off. That basically is a 8-16 week cycle thats going to be very easy to keep muscle mass when you get off instead of the guys who hammer themself for 4 months straight and cross their fingers when they get off with clomid that they dont disengrate (laughable because it happens 90% of the time) ........So Ive already hit on that limited super supplement usage that people do above too many times to count over the last 3 years............and to be brutally honest theres alot of guys (elite pros, top amateurs and advanced bodybuilders) that are running year round and I know those guys want to hear what Im going to say on this. SO DONT GET YOUR GODDAMN PANTIES IN A WAD IF THIS GOES AGAINST WHAT YOU PERSONALLY FEEL IS RIGHT AND MORALLY SOUND YOU HOLIER THAN THOU PROHORMONE ABUSERS AND ONCE A YEAR CYCLERS. Examples of some athletes in Europe or Mexico (where this is all legal)
7 weeks on 2 weeks cruising
6 weeks on 1 week cruising
8 weeks on 2 weeks cruising
7 weeks on 7-10days cruising
It basically comes down to choices of the individual. Some guys cruisings are arim, nolv, hcg and clomid. Some guys refuse to get completely off and do arim nolv hcg clom and 50mg of test prop eod during the cruises. I know of one who does arim nolv hcg clom, the low dose test 50mg and anavar during the cruises and he does that for 3 weeks after blasting for 7-8. Every blasting your trying to get to a new muscular level, every cruising your trying to regulate yourself somewhat by sending signals to the HPTA and maintaining or if your lucky slightly increasing muscle size. It needs to be done that way if your going to stay on for extended periods otherwise your going to have one terrible time coming off. Now if I see one freaking guy posting that this is DC's recommendations on other boards, IM GOING TO GO OFF! I wrote up something like this 4 years ago as it pertained to elite athletes who were running year round anyway and then for the next 3 years I heard idiots telling people that I recommended year round cycling. I recommend letting whatever an individual chooses himself to do and i work in those parameters and try to suggest a better way. Do I believe blasting and cruising works much better both for muscle gains and keeping the hpta regulated than just bludgeoning yourself year round, ....HELL YES I DO. In fact if you break down things, there isnt much difference in "time on""time off" of someone doing 4 months on and 2 months off (pct included) and doing it this way--its almost exactly the same. The difference is the above way i described doesnt give you that YO YO effect where you always trying to gain back muscle mass you lost with each cycle. If you are reading this and believe pros and top amateurs are coming off when they are at the Pro Ironman in February, The arnold in March, The Night of Champions in May, The USA's in the end of July, The olympia in the early fall, and the GNC in the fall, along with flex magazine photo shoots, multiple appearances, and 5-20 guest posings spread out also during the year--AND YET ALWAYS LOOKING BIG HARD JACKED AND NEVER LOOKING SMALLER OR SMOOTHER.....then you need to wake up and smell the Java because your clueless. It aint happening. When is the last time you saw a pro and thought "wow he looks off, he is alot smaller and really smooth too" --I am pretty sure Ronnie took a break this year because of his look earlier in the year but the majority of others? Look at all the shows above spread out over the year and add in maybe one to two shows they are competing in this year (with 4 month contest preps) and you tell me when they are getting off. They arent or if they are its definitely not 2 months completely (off and clean) like Ive seen many post its more like a week here or a week there. There is a massive rock hard amateur superheavyweight with the initials D.P. who strongly advocates 4 months on and 2 months completely off--very strongly advocates the 2 months completely off. When is the last time you have seen him look small and smoother? Theres 100's of pics on his site showing him at various times the last 5 years or so at different shows, guest posings, appearances and he competes twice a year too (theres 8 months on right there). Do you see one pic where he looks off? So the bottom line is this, blasting and cruising is individualistic and it is based on being natural or enhanced and it is based on when both individuals (nat/enhan) start feeling burnt out from the war with the logbook. I step peoples diets down a notch during cruisings (especially the enhanced because their skewered test/est ratio at that time isnt optimal) and I make everyones training more of maintenance to prep them for another blasting. Whether nat or enhanced if you try to go year round with this brutal war with the logbook, it wont work, you have to take 2 steps forward and a half step back and regroup your mindset, fortitude and desire to go the extra mile here.


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:47
DC modifications during precontest and cutting bodyfat

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Lets face it dieting down for a show or just getting all bodyfat off you can be brutal and I wanted to show you guys how Im doing this with people. As carbs get real low its so hard to train nevermind trying to beat the logbook (impossible) during this time and I make provisions for that to keep the most muscle mass on someone. This kind of goes in stages determined by the individual and not me. The individual himself/herself switches over when he feels its neccessary.

Stage one: Joe bodybuilder keeps doing what he is doing mon wed fri with restpausing just like its done in the offseason and he tries his best to keep beating the logbook for as long as he can. You definitely want to stay with what got you all that muscle mass in the offseason as long as you can safely do it. Im noticing more and more that my heavest training guys like the tues (full workout), thursday (full workout) and saturday (half workout), sunday (half workout) scheme better than the mon wed fri one. I would definitely be recommending that to people like the Inhuman one and Friggin Huge who toss around slag iron like human forklifts. For various reasons its a little easier on the mind and feels like your doing only 2 superhuman workouts a week and getting alot more rest in.

Stage two: Joe bodybuilder is really feeling the effects of everything and is starting to tire rapidly during workouts. So at this point he goes over to this scheme.

Monday: Chest shoulders triceps
Tuesday: biceps forearms backwidth backthickness
Wed off
Thursday: calves hams quads
Friday: Chest shoulders triceps
Saturday off
Sunday off
Monday: biceps forearms backwidth backthickness
Tuesday: calves hams quads
Wed off and so on and so on

He keeps on rest pausing during this time. His workouts/stretching will be very very short and this will rekindle the fire somewhat. He could also do the above scheme on the Mon Wed Fri regimen but I would rather he do it the above way if he could so he could still keep on a advanced timeXbodyparts hit schedule but either way will work

Stage three: This is usually anywhere from 6 to 3 weeks out from a show and all the way in --when a bodybuilder is really depleted and feels like a walking zombie. At this point for safety reasons and just severe depletion/exhaustion reasons we no longer restpause. Your not going to be gaining muscle mass the last 2 months before a show so for gods sake dont push the envelope and get a muscle tear or bad injury here trying to do something thats not going to happen anyway. At this point you stay on this scheme

Monday: Chest shoulders triceps
Tuesday: biceps forearms backwidth backthickness
Wed off
Thursday: calves hams quads
Friday: Chest shoulders triceps
Saturday off
Sunday off
Monday: biceps forearms backwidth backthickness
Tuesday: calves hams quads
Wed off and so on and so on

but you no longer rest pause so I want you to do 2 different exercises for straight sets for every bodypart. For example monday is chest shoulders triceps, you would go in and do something hypothetically like this

Chest: Incline smythe for 10-20 reps and then flat dumbell presses for 15-30 reps both straight setted
Shoulders: shoulder press machine for 10-20 reps and then maybe upright rows for 12-20 reps straight setted
Triceps: dip machine for 12-20 reps and pushdowns for 12-20 reps straight setted

Thought you guys might like to see how I have guys do this. Also during precontest its a pretty good idea to always be safe and by that i mean be extra careful with things. With restpausing always try to stay in the higher of the rep range. Which means if I have you going 11-15rp for something in the offseason, try to keep around the 15rp (of even higher if you have any nagging injuries). With stretching, lower your stretching weights and just stay really flexible but dont be doing stupid things like using 120lb dumbells in the fly position to stretch your chest. Its a vulnerable time and its a time that you be smart and careful


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 10:48
En ung gutt på 19 år skal bytte treningsprogram pga at han har økt 30kg på 13 måneder, men brystet og ryggen har ikke økt så bra som han hadde håpet på.

Her er svaret fra mr DC:

Welcome to Dante is fucking pissed off beyond belief!!!!

Your a good guy khan but you really raised my ire with this post and your going to see my anger come out in it. If you end up hating me after this, so be it. Im going to state my thoughts and then i want you to do Westside or whatever methods you want to do, in fact I want you to do them all. I just wish you did those other methods beforehand because I think you got spoiled rotten here and you would be eating your words if it was the other way around. Dont take this all personally but just some of the things you stated really piss me off and im going to vent and its more of a generalized statement to all (but it includes you)

DO YOU GUYS SEE WHY I HATE FUCKING TRAINING YOUNG GUYS NOW? I FUCKING HATE IT. And i didnt even train this guy but i gave him some general pointers in emails, Inhuman did most of the help with him. This kind of thing has repeatedly happened to me locally. Young guys come to me almost weeping that they are so skinny and small and so desperately want to be big. So what did/do I do? I take them under my wing, make them the big boy on the block and guess what happens later on? I see them walking around with a chip on their shoulder acting like they have been there/big forever AND IT MAKES ME IRATE. I see them giving out advice to people and never mentioning my name or giving me credit, its all about them now. Pretty much they totally forget where they came from. Nothing is worse than helping someone get somewhere and all of a sudden he acts like he has been there forever (and that "oh woe is me Im so small, please help me" memory is wiped from their memory banks).

You say its easy to gain fucking 70lbs with enough dedication? Are you fucking kidding me? Dont even disrespect me or the others in this forum with that statement! How bout you take a look at my email box and see how many people cry in their emails to me that they cant get anywhere in bodybuilding? Because it would take you about 3 months to go thru them all. You have no reference point because you started out with the right path right off the bat pretty much. I remember you emailing me desperately wanting to put on muscle mass at one point. What the fuck happened to that guy? Did you forget about that? It sure seems like it. There are millions of people who started out as teenagers lifting that look pretty much the same sizewise 10-20 years later down the road. Do you have any idea how many 30 and 40 year olds contact me because they are the same fucking size they were 15 years ago and they been lifting all this time. They are almost embarrassed about it because they feel that time has passed them by and wasted all those years doing the wrong things but thinking they were the right things. And your putting across this notion that the 70lbs is somewhat normal growing that could of happened anyway? YEA YOUR DAMN FUCKING RIGHT IM PISSED OFF ABOUT THIS. I dont care what anyone does training wise, you can use any system you want. I could care less what someone chooses to do. But you dont forget where you came from!!! Or what got you there!!! This is a slap in the face for me and im suspecting Inhuman (but im not going to talk for him).....to hear you belittle all this after you were "so desperately wanting help" not so long ago angers me beyond words. You were that 150lb little boy once, just as I was- that there are all over these message boards and proliferating my email box with "Please Dante help me"


YOu gain 70 freaking lbs and you think that someway DC training has made you gain 70lbs everywhere else but for some weird unapparent reason it has totally avoided putting chest and back mass on you? Do you think there is any way anyone could do the opposite of that? Gain 70lbs of muscle and just have it be in their chest and back? Think about that for a second back and forth until you understand the concept im getting at. I know how Inhuman trains people and I know what he had you doing. Your doing (for the majority) the exact same things as other people both him and I train. I hear "my chest is growing like a weed" and "my back is blowing up" all the freaking time so if those guys are telling me that and your doing the same damn things and gaining 70 fucking lbs what do you think is going on? YOUR GENETICS IS WHATS GOING ON. The 2 most prevalant things i hear in my emails is how much my trainees legs and backs grow. I almost never hear anyone saying to me that their back isnt growing faster than ever. But I sure hear from the young guys and the "wannabe guys" about chest and arms, and you know why? Because thats the only thing they stare at every single day and the thing they want most. I never hear that from the hardcore bodybuilders because they look at their body as a whole and realize the whole thing is growing according to their genetics. Bottom line, whatever your weak parts are when you start this sport that are still there after 2 years of busting your ass lifting, ARE GOING TO REMAIN WEAK BODYPARTS THE REST OF YOUR CAREER WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. Oh you can get them up but if your quads look awesome after 2 years and your calves suck, no matter how much you get your calves up your quads are always going to outshine them. You dont think Craig Titus has done every fucking thing under the sun in his 20 years of lifting to get his chest mass up? Milos with his back and arms? Mattarrazzo with his back and chest? Ruhl with his triceps? Half those guys have resorted to site injections because of it. AND WE ARE TALKING ELITE GENETICS AND ELITE DRUGS THERE. How many kids are out there copying to the tee what some pro is doing training wise (to the goddamn tee)--do you think they ever developed bodyparts like Ronnie, Jay or Marcus? How many people in the last 40 years copied exactly what arnold did for chest and biceps because his were so outstanding? Did you see one guy, just one guy who developed a chest and biceps like Arnold and said "Well I followed his regimen to the tee and this was the result"!? HELL FUCKING NO. This is about genetics and you dont gain 70lbs by doing the right things in training but somehow totally avoid chest and back. You want to blame somebody for that--then look at mom and pop because thats the hand you were dealt or your not working as hard as all these guys saying "my chest is blowing up"......For every bodypart that blew up on you khan im hearing from guys saying those same bodyparts arent growing on them. You know why? Genetics!!!!!! They are doing what you are doing but their mom and pops didnt give them the edge genetic wise in those bodyparts that your parents did. So it goes both ways. My hamstrings are a very very tough bodypart for me but Chris250's hamstrings enter the room 5 minutes after he does, and I have him doing the exact same things as I do!!!! Whats the answer? Genetics! I dont know anyones back that doesnt grow from the core movements I put in this program--deadlifts, tbars, rack deadlifts, rack chins etc

My regret is that you didnt do all those other methods first and been stuck at 170lbs so you could actually see the difference. You were lead down a successful path pretty early and were damn lucky to get there. Think about that and stick that in the face of all the 30-40 year old guys reading this post that have been lifting 10-20 years who still havent gained 20lbs since they started lifting well over a decade ago. Like I said, its all about remembering what got you there and what it came from.

As for the final part of you leaning out please dont make the same mistake that makes me chuckle when I see others talk about that online. I see guys that do a form of training/or powerlifting for 10 years that brought them up to a huge musculature ---like hypothetically 280lbs. Then they decide to diet down over the next 6 months and do some sort other form of training and end up at 240lbs looking ripped and awesome. Then you see them online saying "god this training transformed me, my chest looks great and i look like a new man"--Bullshit! Your decade worth of training heavy made your herculean physique what it is and your confusing dieting down with making new muscle gains. You took the fat off, of course you look better and rounder because there is no fat to smooth you out----it was all because of that decade worth of heavy training not some "dieting off bodyfat bullshit training scheme"

Like I said I want you to go try those other methods, Im not in one iota pissed that your not continuing on with my methods, but I do take affront to you belittling (in my opinion) all of this. You spend one day (one day tops) in my shoes and see all the sob stories and the emails I get and youll realize how very lucky you are and you sure as hell wont be taking things for granted.


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Caepp13. juni 2005, 10:59
Han kan det med å skrive i en eneste stor klump i alle fall. Mye interessant lesning! :)


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 11:00
Denne bør leses! Ligner på den vanlige Doggcrap treningsprogram stickyen, men er egentlig en gammel tråd tatt fra animalkits.

Det kan tenkes at jeg har oversett noe som omhandler aas her, da jeg bare har myset gjennom teksten. Hvis det er noe jeg ikke har slettet, så håper jeg eventuelt mods/treningsveiledere redigerer bort det mens de leser...

Merk at treningsforum tar avstand fra all bruk av aas!

ok back to my training concepts--Ive stated how my whole goal is to continually get stronger on key exercises=getting continually bigger. I will state this, the method I am about to describe is what I have found that makes people grow at the absolutely fastest rate possible and why I am being inundated down in this area to train people. Its going to go against the grain but I'm making people grow about 2 and a half times as fast the normal rate so bear with me.

A typical workout for the masses is (lets use chest for an example) doing a bodypart once every 7 days (once a week)and sometimes even once every 9 days or more. This concept came to the front due to recovery reasoning and I agree with most typical workouts your going to need a great deal of recovery.

Heres the problem---lets say you train chest once a week for a year and you hypothetically gain 1/64 of an inch in pectoral thickness from each workout. At the end of the year you should be at 52/64 ( or 13/16 ). Almost an inch of thickness (pretty good).

To build muscle we are trying to lift at a high enough intensity and load to grow muscle but with enough recovery so the muscle remodels and grows. The problem is everyone is loading up on the volume end of training and its taking away from the recovery part of it.
You can train in a way so you can train chest 3 times every nine days and you will recover and grow faster than ever. If you train chest 3 times in 9 days you are now doing chest roughly 136 times a year! So instead of 52 growth phases you are now getting 136 growth phases a year. I personally would rather grow 136 times a year than 52. At a hypothetical 1/64th of an inch per workout you are now at 136/64 (or roughly 2.1 inches of thickness). So now your growing at roughly 2 and a half times as fast as normal people who are doing modern day workouts are. Most people train chest with 3 to 4 exercises and wait the 7-9 days to recover and that is one growth phase. I use the same 3 to 4 exercises but do chest 3 times during those 9 days and get 3 growth phases. Everyone knows a muscle either contracts or doesnt--you cannot isolate a certain part of it (you can get into positions that present better mechanical advantages though that put a focus on certain deep muscle fibers)--for example incline presses vs flat presses. One huge mistake beginning bodybuilders make is they have a "must" principle instilled in them. They feel they "must" do this exercise and that exercise and this many sets or they wont grow. GOOD GOD THIS IS VERY HARD TO EXPLAIN BY TYPING IT ALL OUT ON A MESSAGE BOARD

how I set bodybuilders workouts up is I have them pick either their 3 favorite exercises for each bodypart or better yet the exercises they feel will bring up their weaknessess the most. For me my chest exercises are high incline smythe machine press, hammer seated flat press and slight incline smythe press with hands very very wide----this is because I look at my physique and I feel my problem area is upper and outer pecs---that is my focus.

I set up the program like this
DAY ONE
CHEST
SHOULDERS
TRICEPS
BACK WIDTH
BACK THICKNESS

DAY TWO
BICEPS
FOREARMS
CALVES
HAMSTRINGS
QUADS

DAY THREE OFF

DAY FOUR-REPEAT CHEST DAY ONE AND SEQUENCE BUT WITH TOTAL DIFFERENT EXERCISES

DAY FIVE-REPEAT DAY TWO AND SEQUENCE WITH TOTAL DIFFERENT EXERCISES

DAY SIX OFF

DAY SEVEN-REPEAT DAY ONE AND SEQUENCE WITH TOTAL DIFFERENT EXERCISES THAN DAY ONE AND FOUR

DAY EIGHT --REPEAT DAY TWO AND SEQUENCE WITH TOTAL DIFFERENT EXERCISES THEN DAY TWO AND FIVE

Stay with me here--Your only doing one exercise per muscle group per day. Your doing your first favorite exercise for chest on day one--your doing your second favorite exercise for chest on day four and your third exercise for chest on day seven. Your doing the same exercises you would be doing anyway in a weeks time and training chest 3 times in that week(or nine days) with minimal sets so you can recover. You cannot do a 3-5 exercise chest workout and recover to train chest again 3 days later. Absolutely impossible!! You can come in and do 2-3 warmup sets up to your heaviest set and then do one working set (rest paused) all out balls to the wall on that exercise --recover and grow and be ready again 3 days later.

Example Day one
first exercise smythe incline presses (ill use the weights i use for example)
135 for warmup for 12--185 for 8 warmup--225 for 6-8 warmup-----then 375 for 8 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 2-4 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 1-3 reps to absolute total failure (then a 20-30 second static hold) DONE!--thats it 375lbs for 8+4+3= 375 for 15 reps rest paused..... next week I go for 385 (again rest paused)-----directly after that rest pause set I go to extreme stretching flyes as described earlier in this post and thats it for chest and on to shoulders, triceps and back........the next day I come in to do chest would be day 4 and i would do hammer flat presses in the same rest paused manner (and then extreme stretching again)---the next day i come in to do chest is day seven and I would do my third favorite exercise rest paused and then the cycle repeats. Three chest workouts in nine days with low enough volume to recover in between workouts and high enough intensity and load to grow rapidly--my workouts last an hour--im doing one exercise for one all out balls to the wall rest pause set (i dont count warmups only the working set) ---so in simple terms I am using techniques with extreme high intensity(rest pause) which i feel make a persons strength go up as quickly as possible + low volume so i can (recover) as quickly as possible with as many growth phases (damage/remodel/recover)I can do in a years time --Before you disregard this because it is so utterly different, think it out ok ill hit more on this later...I have to go eat, im starving

Anomynous said :Sounds pretty good. I can see some HD or yates influence. Also I like the Idea of hitting chest 3x/9days.

Doggcrapp: Actually some of you who know of me probaly know I was talking about this same kind of training back about 7-8 years ago...Just in case any of you were confused every bodypart is hit 3 times in 9 days and advanced techniques such as rest pause is used (if it can be used)....Some exercises like hack squats and some back rowing exercises dont allow themselves to rest pausing too well. A sample coupld of days for me would be the following (im not including warmup sets--just working sets)
Day 1
CHEST:smythe incline 375 x 15 reps rest pause (RP)and 20 second static rep at end
SHOULDERS front smythe press-330 x 13RP
TRICEPS-reverse grip bench 315 for 15-20 reps rest paused
Back width: rear pulldowns to back of head 300 x 18RP (20 second static at end)
Back thickness: deadlifts straight set of 12-20 reps (less weight than ronnie coleman thats for sure--anyone see those 805lb deadlifts for reps he does?)

Day 2
BICEPS- dumbell curls rest paused for 20 reps
FOREARMS--hammer curls rest paused for 15
CALVES -on hack squat straight set for 12 reps but with a 20 second negative phase
HAMSTRINGS-lying leg curl rest paused for 15-20 reps and then 20 second static at end
QUADS-hack squat straight set of 6 plates each side for 20 reps (of course after warming up)

DAY THREE IS OFF --Day four and five is same as day one with same concepts but different exercises (and again the same with days seven and eight)

every exercise is done with a controlled but explosive positive and a true 6-10 second negative phase. And the absolutely most important thing of any of this is I write down all weights and reps done from the working set on a notepad (and every time i go into the gym i have to continually look back and beat the previous times reps/weight or both)---If I cant or I dont beat it, no matter if I love doing the exercise or not, I have to change to a new exercise. Believe me this adds a grave seriousness, a clutch performance or imperiativeness to a workout. I have exercises I love to do and knowing I will lose them if I dont beat the previous stats sucks! But there is a method to this madness because when you get to that wall of sticking point of strength (AND YOU WILL, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN HACK SQUAT UP TO 50 PLATES A SIDE) that is when your muscle=strength gains will stop.....and you must turn to a different exercise and get strong on that one. And then someday you will peak out on that one too. You can always come back to that loved exercise in the future and youll start somewhat low and build up to a peak again--and trust me that peak will be far more than the previous one. Some exercises youll stay with and gain strength at for almost up to a year and some exercises youll be at the limit in 4 weeks and lose them but its all in the plan. I love reverse grip bench presses--knowing that I have to beat 315 for 17 reps rest paused or else I have to change to maybe dips next time puts a serious sense of urgency into workouts. I either have to beat it by doing something to the effect of 320 for 15 rest paused or if i stick with 315, I have to get at least 19 reps rest paused or so. If im feeling crappy or having an offday I might give myself a little leeway and allow myself another go at it next time around but thats it. The notepad is your intensity level, how badly you want to keep doing an exercise will be how hard you push to beat the previous. Looking at that piece of paper knowing what you have to do to beat it will bring out the best in you. Again its all in the plan to make you the strongest bodybuilder possible which will equal out into the biggest bodybuilder possible.

iron addict said:Now good luck on convincing people one set can be enough. We both know most people are mesmerized by the SHIT they read in the BB mags and truly beleive that they must do 9-20 sets per BP with 3 or 4 different excercises. What they ignore is that the intensity is to low and the volume to high for any real growth to occur

Doggcrapp: that is about the truest statement Ive ever read.......I find myself irritated when I see people say "genetics"--its amazing to me that at 19 I was 6 foot and 137lbs (yes 137) and eating 6 meals a day and people would laugh at me the stickboy trying to be a bodybuilder. I seriously did not miss a meal for my first 3 and a half years, I would set my alarm at 2am and wake up and eat scrambled eggs and pancakes if I missed a meal during the day. Two years later I looked "normal" at 196lbs or so. Two years just to look like a normal person! I kept bombing away, eating and not taking no as an answer and now I am up at 300lbs and people say "you must of always been big" and genetics. Thats tough for me to hear thinking how psyched I was to weigh more than 170 at one point. Ive only trained one true mesomorph. Mesomorphs dont need trainers usually. I train ectomorphs and endomorphs. The last 3 people Ive trained have been a pudgey mexican who was 172 (now 258lbs hard)--a skinny marine, and a guy stuck at 188lbs for many years (now 260). These people all thought the same thing seeing how my workouts were set up-"am i doing enough?"--If you can show someone how to train so hard that they realize they were holding back tremendously during their 8-20 set workouts, thats half the battle. The other half is making them realize how impossible it is to do 8-20 sets per bodypart if you truly truly train balls to the wall hard. Personally if I do a 20 rep hack squat with slag iron heavy weights....at 10 reps I am seriously doubting I am going to make it---at 14 reps im seeing colors---at 17 reps im asking god for help--and the last 3 reps are life, death, or rigor mortis---I know for a fact that there is no way in hell I could do another 4-5 sets of hacks like that. I gave everything I had right there on that set. If I can do another 4-5 sets like that Im cruising at 70% at the most. Basically Im trying to get people to grow 136 times a year instead of 52, with the one working set per bodypart every 3 days and the stretching.

anomynous said:My view on training is that anything will work for a while, within reason and barring exeptional circumstances. I believe things must be changed--cycled, if you must use that term--and that no training style will "work" if it is continuously applied.

Doggcrapp:I disagree strongly on that. No matter what the method someone uses to gain super strength gains-its imperiative they do so. If you put someone out on a deserted island with 135lbs of weights he can superset, giant set, high rep, superslow etc etc squats, deadlifts and benches to his hearts delight...the sad story is his gains will quickly come to a halt because his limiting factor is amount of strength he will gain. He has 135lbs to work with. You take that same guy on a deserted island and give him squats deadlifts, and benches and an unlimited weight supply that he constantly pushes-- In 5 years i'll show you a big Gilligan.
I think the biggest fallacy in bodybuilding is "changing up" "keeping the body off balance"--you can keep the body off balance by always using techniques or methods that give your body a reason to get bigger=strength. If you dont write down your weights and every time you come into the gym you go by feel and do a different workout (like 98% of the gym members who never change do now) what has that done? Lets say Mr gym member does 235 for 9 on the bench press this week, "tries to keep his body guessing" by doing 80lbs for 13 on flyes next week, 205 for 11 on inclines the week after, 245 on hammer press for 12 the week after that --and so on---there is only a limited number of exercises you can do. Two months later when he does bench presses again and does 235 for 8 or 9 has he gained anything--absolutely not. Four months later he does hammer presses for 245 for 11 (again) do you think he has given his body any reason to change?
Take 2 twins and have one do a max squat for 20 reps and the other twin giant set 4 leg exercises with the same weight. All year long have the first twin blast away until he brings his squat for 20 reps from 150 to 400lbs. Have the second twin giant set four exercises every workout with the same weight he used in his first workout all year long. Believe me he is going to be sore and he will be shocking the body every time but he will not gain shit after about the third leg workout. Because the load didnt change. There is no reason for his legs to grow in size due to the strength demand presented. The first twin who can now squat 400 for 20 is going to have some wheels. I use rest pause because in my opinion it is the utmost method to rapidly gain strength. Others might like a different method--thats up to them, doesnt matter as long as they are rapidly gaining strength. I try to bring someone through the shortest but intense workout they can to produce rapid strength increases--use glutamine, extreme stretching and 3 days for recovery, and then try to make them grow again. If your gaining appreciable strength on an exercise with a certain method I think the ABSOLUTELY WORSE THING YOU CAN DO is to change up right then. Take that exercise and method to its strength limit and then when you get there then change to a different exercise (and maybe method) and get strong as f#cking hell on that one too.

maximus said: now if this person is a high level athlete then they have benifited from the cerebellar enhancement and neurological facilitation and plasticity and they may well reach 100% of muscle fiber recruitment on both a single effort and in a single set..

Doggcrapp: This is how I show someone the intensity they should be putting into every exercise and it really opens some eyes up quickly in the people I train. Either next quad workout or next time you dont feel like doing your normal leg workout, be true to yourself and take the number of plates you load up on the leg press for a hardcore 10 reps deep ---cut it exactly in half and do one set of 50 reps deep. So if your bragging to everyone that you can do 12 plates on each side for 10 then guess what your going to be doing - 6 a side for 50. And you know what-- everyone reading this can do the 50 reps, it just comes down to who has the most balls or not. You cannot lock your knees the whole set and you cannot rest your hands on your knees either. I try to get 25 first and then pause at the top (with knees slightly bent) and take 5 deep breaths and then get 10 more (5 deep breaths) and 5 more.(im at 40 now)..then the last 10 reps is pure tortuous hell...i usually do 3 reps (take 3 breaths)3 more reps, 3 more breaths, then 2 reps (3 deep breaths) and finally the last 2 reps=50 reps. Your legs will be absolutely destroyed and you better start stretching or walking the next day is going to be an adventure. My best ever was about 3 years ago I got 7 plates a side for 50 and i go deep (knees to armpits deep). The people that I have seen who cannot make it to 50 are people who dont have the mental fortitude to take pain and get pissed off or someone who starts to cramp. But youll learn alot from that one set, you will learn the intensity it takes to approach every set on every other bodypart and exercise you do.

Iwrecknsew said: what about recovery of the CNS? Yeah your muscles are being given ample time for recovery, but what about your nervous system? Does that come during the two week cruising period?

I recently found I was just overtrained. I had no appetite. I had no sex drive(even though I was on 800mg test/wk). i was y all the time. I was doing something similar, except for maybe "a little" more volume. I was doing two working sets. My muscles were fine, but I wasn't getting any bigger or stronger, just staying the same. All I can guess is that my CNS was burned out? Any thoughts?

Doggcrapp: Without knowing your exact routine its hard to say. I use extreme stretching and an abundance of glutamine to help my recovery ability. Some of your symptoms sound like a higher estro amount in the body too. As far as CNS my personal opinion is I think 20 sets of a hard leg workout stresses out my central nervous system far more than a total 5 set workout of half my body. The two biggest mistakes I ever made were when I believed in the whole "you must" do this and that thing. When I got to about 200lbs of bodyweight I started doing 3 on one day off workouts with 8-16 sets per bodypart. Sometimes my workouts went to 3 and a half hours (like on leg day). I just believed you must do this exercise for outer quad and this exercise for inner chest and that exercise for lower pec etc etc etc --a complete waste of two years lifting for me. Insomnia (CNS) and severe overtraining, exhausted all the time, loss of appetite etc...I feel sorry for beginning bodybuilders because no matter what they read or who they listen too its so hard to convince them that "you seriously dont have to do alot to grow" --you just have to do it short, heavy, and intense and let protein and recovery take its course. Usually a newbie bodybuilder's enthusiasm wins out over his deductive reasoning and he wastes about 2-3 years of lifting or gives up altogether. The other mistake I made was-I was freinds with Duchaine (he lived like 4 miles from me) and after alot of arguing back and forth of our different approaches to dieting, I gave his nutrient dense repartitioning diet a chance for a year. Gained about a lb of muscle. Never again. I know the human body doesnt like to dramatically change unless you dramatically give it reasons too (like 550 grams of protein per day)

NPC said:COuld you tell me a little more about rep ranges on each muscle and about traing rear delts abs lower back and cardio.

doggcrapp: On rep ranges i find that sometimes with rest pausing people fall into too low a rep range trap...where they are getting 7-8 reps rest paused. Thats fine some of the time or on your first week at an exercise where your going to beat the rep range next time, but I dont like people hitting 3+2+2 rest paused indefinitely. They would be doing essential heavy triples on the first part of that rest pause set and Id rather they not open themselves up to a potential injury.
The rep ranges I like are (from lowest to highest)
chest-12 (6+4+2) to 20 (10+6+4) rest paused--

99% of the time I am right in the 15RP range which is (8+4+3) hypothetically as I have no idea what reps I am going to reach failure on.
I essentially lift the opposite that other people lift. I try like hell to push the weight up SO I CAN LOWER IT DOWN SLOW (as that is as most people know--the eccentric and where the most productive muscle building effect is taking place to put it in simple terms). Most people will do an incline press--go to positive failure thinking they wont get one more positive rep so they rack the bar up top, but me at that point I lower the bar 6-10 seconds down, and rack it at the bottom. Thats my failure point. (think about it--do that 3 times during a rest pause set and youve gained 3 eccentric reps)
shoulders=12 to 20RP (15rp is again what i shoot for and is the most common)
triceps 12rp to 20 rp
back width-12rp to 20rp
back thickness-(depends on exercise--if its rack deadlifts or bent over rows Ill do 12 to 15 reps rest paused. If its deadlifts from the floor Ill do a straight set 12 to 20 heavy)

biceps-15 to 20 reps restpaused
forearms/brachilias-depends on movement
calves (described earlier on this thread)
hamstrings-15 to 20 restpaused
quads-a straight 15 to 50 reps heavy as I can possibly go (usually its 20 reps)

rear delts-i do movements in my training now (deadlifts, bent over rows reverse grip, stiff legged deadlifts and rack deadlifts) that I feel are hitting my rear delts hard and heavy enough so I dont feel I need to do bent over laterals. If im doing rack deadlifts and squeezing and arching backwards the whole top quarter of the movement with 600 plus lbs I really dont think some 30lb bent over laterals are going to make my rear delts grow better than that.

Lower back--deadlifts (rack and floor) same notion--100lb hyperextension vs high rep heavy weight deadlifts --Ill take the deadlifts

cardio--dont do it presently because I have a tough time gaining weight (have tried to do it 2-3 times a week in past about 3 times now and I cannot gain weight)--. Someone else might have to definitely include it in their weekly repertoire in offseason though. I have definite opinions on precontest cardio though.

abs-i believe in straight sets with progressive weights 15 to 30 reps. I have a busy gym and usually do them while waiting for a machine. Which gives me about 2 sets of 2 different exercises (leg raises, partial situp) per workout

SPE:Hey doggcrap, can you explain how you do rest pause?

Doggcrapp: Most people do rest pausing at a lower rep scale. I try to have people do it at 6 to 12 reps complete failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) another 2-5 reps to failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) and then a final 1-3 to failure. Dont count each one as a set--the whole thing together is a rest pause set. The lowest rest pause you'll probaly do is a 10RP which would be something like (5+3+2). My personal opinion is 15RP works best (8+4+3)--but experiment and see what you like. You can think of rest pausing like you do with squats...usually you get really tired and then you try to take in 3-5 deep breaths and try a couple more reps, and again 3-5 deep breaths and a couple more reps. Almost like a break in the set to get in more reps. Well with rest pausing you are(lets use benching for example)...taking a weight in which you could do for 8 reps to failure and now instead of getting just 8 reps with it--you are going on with the set and getting 15 reps total with it. A complete overload and what will the result be? A bigger chest because 15 reps was done and 8 was supposed to be the limit.

Mondo:My goal is to hit +/-250lbs at 8% bf. This is going to be a real hurdle for me since at 27 I was only 238. I problem lies with trying to calculate the amt of protein and glutamine that I will need to get me there. Some say, 1 1/2 per current lb of body weight while others say 1 1/2 x the goal weight. What do you think? Also, how much glutamine etc...

Doggcrapp: Mondo I find 9.5 out of 10 times that someone stops gaining its his diet that is the problem. Eight out of 10 times that same lifter wrongly thinks he is overtraining or his workouts are off. The other 2 out of 10 times that person thinks his supplements or 'juice' is the problem. I keep trying to brainwash people SUPPLY AND DEMAND, SUPPLY AND DEMAND--if you can make a demand (hard enough training) you can meet the supply (abundance of protein grams). I love when people come to me with this problem of not making gains anymore and they go thru this intricate workout, supplement, and sauce fix and all i say is "double the serving size on all your protein drinks and make sure the post workout drink is 100grams at least." Boom! they take off gaining again. I know you don't know me from adam but trust me on this one. Food (protein) is your anabolic. Anyone in this forum who is at a true stalemate, I ask you to try 500 grams a day of protien for 6 months and then come back in here and tell me what you look like. Training is the engine, food (protein) is the gasoline and juice is the Nitrous oxide system. Mondo i would say hit 2 grams per lb of bodyweight that you want to be=500grams. That could be about 200-250 in protein drink grams and you can easily eat the rest

speC, I like your protein advice. How important do you think the carb and fat cals are? Do you think gaining muslce is more dependent on protein intake, total calorie intake, or both?

doggcrapp: Well if your not meeting your energy requirements some of the protein your ingesting is going to be used as a fuel source. I like omega-3's (flaxseeds) and extra virgin olive oils (mono unsaturated fat)--118 calories per tablespoon. I throw 2-3 tablespoons in my morning and afternoon shakes but not in the post workout or bedtime ones (self explanatory). Go slow with olive oil or you will be seatbelting yourself to the toilet the first couple days. As far as diet I am like Palumbo in that aspect...I like high protein, moderate (good) fats and low to moderate carbs..I eat the amount of protein grams I want to ingest first and if its before 6-7pm I satisfy the rest of my hunger with carbs. If I go to mcdonalds I'll blast as many hamburgers as I can and skip the fries. (laughing) but true. After 6-7pm I will go high protein and trace to low carbs (example huge steak and alot of a vegetable but no rice, pasta or bread). This is the way I have found thru trial and error that I can keep myself and people I train fairly lean but still have them gaining at the highest rate. Im sorry im not a calorie counter at all. Im a protein gram counter. I weigh myself and others once a month on the same scale and if they are not gaining I already know they are on high protein so I fix the problem with added mono unsat's (olive oil), flaxseeds and some extra carbs here or there. I trained a 188 lb (former cornerback-NFL only one year) and got him up to 232 and then he stopped gaining. I tried everything to get him going again but after his protein intake I just couldnt get him to put enough food down the hatch. And I really got on his ass about it too. He was burning up every thing. He loved ice cream and I said fuck it--get your protein in but pound down 1/2 gallon to a gallon a day before 6pm--he did and very quickly after that shot up up to 265 or so (with striations everywhere still). Moral of the story? I got no idea--dont follow that method.

second part to the question--i think gaining muscle is most dependant on protein along with hydration and glutamine intake AS LONG AS the BMR/energy requirments are met.

Chest Rockwell:This sounds like a program that I followed clean for two months. Even w/o anabolics, lifting for strength and proper nutrition put 16 pounds on (prob 12 lbm) in that time.
But, I have swayed back to the old periodization principles that we have all been brainwashed with. I like the sound of this program, and I plan on following it. A few questions though for Doggcrapp: How much of an increase should we look to add a week in terms of weights? When we pause, do you mean rack the weight after the initial 8 reps, take 15 deep breaths, then fire out 5-6 more then rack and take deep breaths again, then finish? I believe I understand the principal to an extent, but I want to be sure. Thanks

Doggcrapp; Again the bigger the strength increase will be, the bigger the eventual size increase will be. Personally I have to beat my previous by either 2 reps or I have to add weight and at the very least get the minimum number of reps I allow myself rest paused on that exercise (or like previously stated I lose that exercise). If you find yourself blasting for weeks on end gaining just a rep here and a pound there, I think that is a waste of time--the gains will be coming too slow. Somewhat rapid increases are what we are striving for. If you really put your mind to it you can make rapid strength increases on any exercise and you can make those 2 rep or 5lb (at least)jumps for a lengthy amount of time. Here I'll give you an abbreviated version of what I am looking for
day 1--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
and then 185X14RP (which was a 8+4+2 or something to that effect) twelve is the lowest I will allow myself on this movement, twenty is the highest)---the next time you would do paramount shoulder press again would be
day 10--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
185x18RP
day 20--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
195x13RP
day 30--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
195x16RP
day 40--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
195x18RP
day 50--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
205x12RP
day 60--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
205x14RP
day 70--paramount shoulder press (warmups)
205x13RP DAMMIT I BLEW IT NOW I HAVE TO GO TO DUMBELL PRESSES NEXT TIME

In the real world I doubt you would of bombed out there, I bet you would of made it up somewhere around 240 to 260 before bombing out(but im not typing all that)


Second part of question--rest pause is done exactly like this (ill use the paramount shoulder press again) every rep done is 6-8 seconds down and fast up

You do 185lbs to total failure (which we will hypothetically say is 8 reps ok) FINISH ON THE NEGATIVE-rack the weight and start breathing as deeply as you can to get as much oxygen in for 12 to 15 deep breaths (during this time you might or your training partner might be getting whatever exercise your doing ready for you again--like both of you bringing the bar back to the top again etc)
I say 15 deep breaths but I want that whole time period to last maybe 20 seconds tops so depending on your breathing 12 to 15 deep breaths
You went to failure with 185, you racked on the negative, took 15 deep breaths, and now you take the 185 again and go to complete failure again (lets say hypothetically failure was 4 reps)DO THE NEGATIVE PORTION 8 SECONDS DOWN AND RACK IT--15 more deep breaths, then 185 again to total failure FINISH ON THE NEGATIVE AND RACK IT. Depending on your recovery ability, the exercise and if your an advanced trainer or not instead of racking it at the very end you can "try" (and I say try) to hold the weight in a static hold for 20 seconds just before racking it(good luck you'll be shaking like a leaf at that point--I've had some words come out of my mouth trying to hold my static that could hit a triple word score on scrabble)

groan4uogg,you have gotten me all fired up with all of this knowledge!!!I really appreciate you sharring this with us.This is the kind of info I look for when I'm on the boards.True ,down to earth ,gut busting training with proper nutrition and no no bells and whistles. Thanks Dogg. One question...where do orals come into play in your program or do they?

doggcrapp: Well one thing I know I keep saying but I truly believe in is this...you guys pretty much know what you can do, what you like to do, and whats going on in your life right now...so I try to give an outline and some principles I believe in but I have confidence in people that if I can show some pertinent ideas you can do your own thing and run with it. Everything I present is not written in stone. Like rest pause, its the best for me and some people I train because I believe it gives the greatest amount of strength gains in the shortest amount of time but someone like Iron addict probably has his own methods that he gains strength with optimally. Doesnt matter as long as the bottom line is the most productive way of blasting up poundages on a progressive basis. Same thing with cycling. I truly believe that Test. should be the base compound but whether your cattle wants to use fina, equip, or winny, or any orals with it is up to you. I beleive in the cheapest yet most effective way of doing things. To me that is test/fina (4 weeks) then cruising for 2 weeks and then test/equip then cruising and etc etc. For your cattle it might be test/reforvit capsules, test/thai dbol or test/Winny tabs etc. The outline remains the same but the personal choices are yours to make

warnerve:Thanks DC for the response. Im doing your program right now, started about a week ago. Im one sore MOFO thats for sure! Your logic seems the best behind any program that I've ever read or done. Thanks for the info. This may be a stupid question but I'm not familiar with rack deadlifts. Im assuming you do them in a powerack? Do you set the pins at different heights to utilize more weight? I want to incorportate them into the routine. Also what do you do for Hams? Other than stiff leg deadlifts and hamstring curls? What would be some other good exercises to utilize heavy weight? Thanks again bro.

doggcrapp: rack deadlifts--in a power rack, safety bars at knee level (your pulling from knee level)--keep your back arched or at least flat the entire movement (not rounded at all)--if your back starts rounding, its time to end the set or your using too much weight. Personally I pull with an overhand and underhand deadlift grip and with my arms perfectly straight, try to pull my shoulders up and back at the top. I then do about a 4-5 second negative down but I wouldnt suggest that to others unless I can show how to do it. (I keep locked---my back arched and knees slightly bent and lower it)..kind of takes a little getting used too.

Hamstrings--leg curls rest paused, stiff legged deadlifts and I do the following movement on a leg press religiously(man this one is easier to show and hard to explain here) legs wide, feet are at the very top pushing only with your heels, toes are off the plate. rest paused for 20 reps. Your pretty much doing a leg press with only your heels and your toes off the top of the plate--it blasts hamstrings and you will feel it as soon as you get up the next morning. You need the right leg press to do this though-some plates are angled weird. I go as deep as I safely can on these--dont let your ass round up-you can do this by taking in alot of air, keeping your chest high (and your head stays on the back rest)when your lowering it and your ass will stay down.

anonymous:Not trying to get off the training part of the thread or anything but what brand of enanthate do you use.

Doggcrapp: when I am in Mexico where it is legal to use--I try to use the Loeffler

anonymous:Also I see that you use eq in your mix. I thought eq didn't start to really take effect until week 5 or 6

Doggcrapp:With all steroids 'working' within 72 hours (and likely much much sooner) of administration (depending on ester, base, and if you injected in muscle, scar tissue, fat etc etc etc etc)--I'm not one to think that a steroid doesnt work at all until 5-6 weeks later. If you have a buildup of a certain hormone where week 5-6 is the peak, yea I'll go along with that theory.

anonymous: I have been following your advice throughout the thread and am now sitting down and writing out my training and vitamin regimen for the upcoming year.

Thanks a bunch for a no crap approach to getting big!!!

Doggcrapp: no problem--one thing I wanted to state about my methods of approaching things is--the lifting is hard, the stretching is hard, but the eating 6 times a day, 500 grams of protein a day constantly will be the hardest thing you do. It will also be the most important, so you have to make do with things like always having a protein drink around and available if you might miss a meal. Alot of times I pack some roast beef and 2 potatoes (and some milk to drink) in a cooler if I have a day where I think I might get caught in traffic somewhere (eat it while i drive)or be in a rush.

anomynous:Not trying to take anything away from you Dogg, but if you ARE 278lbs, then you have to be at least 6'5". From the looks of your pics, you don't appear to be that thick. I'd say that you'd need another 30 or 40 pounds to look as thick as some 250lb guys

doggcrapp: to each his own--thats the dilemna for tall guys in this sport, why do you think gunter schlielkamp can get onstage at 295lbs and still doesnt look as thick as a jay cutler who is 5'8 260....I'm 6 foot 1 not 6'5". Part of the reason I didnt want to put pics up in the first place...you get every guy on the internet becoming a critical judge. I know my place in this sport, Im not claiming to be a top pro and never will be one. You have to have the genetics of the top elite to be a pro nowadays. Which is about 1 out of 100,000 people I would guesstimate by the lowly amount of incredible bodybuilders out there. Im just a guy who weighed 138 at 19 and now is close to 300. It sucks but I started far below everyone else out there. Ive gone far past the majority. I will never be Coleman, Cutler, or on the Olympia stage (nor will 99.9999% of the people dreaming to be a pro on the net). But I can change other people into advanced bodybuilders pretty easily. I'm always amazed at people who can look at certain 2 inch by 3 inch pics and can project that person to being right in front of them. Ive seen people think Shawn Ray is massive and then see him in person and he is 5 foot 6 tall. Ive seen people that think guys like Quincy Taylor and such look lanky by looking at a 2x3 inch picture in a magazine--but stand next to him in person and the guy is a monster. I look at Greg Kovacs in pictures and compared to the rest of him his arms dont look large, but I have nothing to compare him too in pictures....ever see kovacs in person? Fucking gargantuan. Do I want your respect? not really, I'm not standing in front of you all you can see is a 2x3inch pic with the only object you can compare me to is my girlfreind...Did I expect answering Captro's request that I would get some crap --yea I did

It's kind of the reason i have never competed...I want to get onstage at 260 or so. I feel I need to get larger to really do damage as a superheavyweight. To do this I will need to weigh 315-320 offseason. I have purposedly kept myself at lower amounts of Test. (1000mg max so far) as I didnt want to become alot of these guys who have to use 5000mg a week just to weigh 270 offseason. Im kind of proud of the fact that I use the amount of Test. that people 70lbs less than me use, I think the other things I do (high protein, super heavy weights, stretching etc) make up the difference. The superheavies I know use 2 to 3.5grams a week of Test with a large amount of 1 or 2 other things and GH. If I want to compete with the supers-I will have to use close to what other supers do. (I still havent decided if I want to even get close to abusing myself like that--reasons being I get more of an accomplishment by making other people into advanced bodybuilders fast.)

Back to the subject of this thread--A person could use a Synovex kit for his cattle to get his base of Test. (this would be cheap and also about as legal as he could be)---he could also get a Fold kit for his cattle to use with the Test for his cattle's first 4 week push (also cheap as hell and about as legal as one could be)---he could buy clomid from SBC for pennies (and still be grey market legal)--and he could buy research arimidex (for the cheapest/legal price anywhere) during his two week cruising----the only thing that sucks is it is too bad there isnt another "high anabolic-lower to medium androgen" cattle pellet, or "grey area" prohormone that could be converted. This way a person's cattle could cycle fina and then the high anabolic compound with the Test. off and on the cheapest and most legal way possible--without fear of ordering through mail, depending on others not setting them up etc etc...All pellets and prohormones are pretty much androgen based and the ones that are not aren't very effective (not sold on 1,4-androstadienedione) or personally dont want to use (NOR's). Its really too bad we don't have a compound such as a boldenone in pellet form to convert (to stay in the readily available, legal, and cheap status)

Iron addict: I've done rest-puase in the past and one problem I've always had is REALLY being able to tell how progressive I was with poundages because it's real easy to rest a little longer than you did the week before and THINK you got more reps in when instead you were just resting a little longer. I did a few rest-puase sets the last couple workouts and after the first week I realized I better get the stop watch out and time my rests periods between reps. How do you handle this? Especially doing LONG negatives. If you do a ten second negative on an excercise and then come back to it 9 days later and do an 8 second negative you may get more reps while not actually having gotten any stronger, but you will perceive it as progress. Your thoughts please.

Doggcrapp: wow good question that I thought about alot when I was putting down some of my training thoughts on here and kept skipping. This is what I do and you and others might do something different but--After some time at rest pausing I noticed I started counting 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 at roughly the same pace during every eccentric phase of exercises I did. I went home and did it at a stop watch and kept the same counting cadence and it always comes out somewhere about 8 seconds (every time). So something like a bent over row or rack deadlift Ill count to 8 (5 seconds)and if its a bench or bicep curl etc, etc Ill count to 10. With me, counting to 8 always comes out to 5 seconds or so and counting to 10 comes out to 7.8 (lets just say eight) seconds or so. So 99% of my exercises Im doing a 8 second negative phase on. As far as rest between the rest pauses I find breathing in and out deeply 12 times comes out to about 23 seconds for me every time so i just stick to that. I used to count "one onethousand, two thousand etc etc" but Ive been rest pausing for a long time now and its all second nature to me.

Soy grits= 22 grams of protein /140 cals and 12 carbs per half cup --throw it in your oatmeal. I search for the lowest cost route to get in the most amount of viable protein...One bag of 28 ounce soy grits costs $1.75 to $2.25 and I get free shipping--you cant beat that for 7 to 8 servings of it. Try this place---http://store.yahoo.com/vitaglo/6326.html

The other question--Flaxseed oil is great for omega-3 except there is a problem. You get the most amount of lignans in ground flaxseed. You lose all or alot of it when processed into the oil. Even when you use the high lignan oils. The below study suggests ground flaxseed is on level with nolvadex/tamoxifen.

Thompson LU, Li T, Chen J, Goss PE Nutritional Sciences, University of Toronto, Toronto, ON, Canada; Medical Oncology, Princess Margaret Hospital, Toronto, ON, Canada

Epidemiological studies and biological properties of mammalian lignans derived from plant precursors (phytoestrogens) suggest that they may have anticancer potential. Flaxseed, the richest source of mammalian lignan precursors, has previously been shown to reduce the mammary tumor number and growth of established tumors in rats.

The aim of this study was to examine, in a randomized double blind, placebo controlled, prospective clinical trial, the effects of dietary flaxseed on tumor biology, urinary lignan excretion and side effects in patients with newly diagnosed breast tumors.

Patients were randomized to either a 25g flaxseed containing muffin (6 pre-, 17 post-menopausal) or a control (placebo) muffin (4 pre-, 12 post-menopausal). At initial diagnostic core biopsy and at definitive surgery, (a) tissues were analyzed for rate of tumor cell proliferation(Ki67 labeling index and score), c-erB-2 expression, and estrogen (ER) and progesterone (PR) receptor levels, (b) 24-hr urine samples were collected and analyzed for lignans, and (c) 3-day diet records were analyzed for nutrient intake.

Side effects were monitored. Mean treatment times were 39 and 38 days in the placebo and flaxseed groups, respectively.

In postmenopausal women, significant reductions (21-33%) in Ki67 labeling index (p<.036) and scores (p<.029) and in the c-erB-2 expression (p<.040) were observed in the flaxseed group but not in the placebo group. These changes are comparable to those seen with tamoxifen using similar study protocol. No significant differences in the ER and PR levels and in caloric and macronutrient intakes were seen between groups and between pre- and post- treatment periods.

Significantly higher post-treatment urinary lignan excretion was observed in the flaxseed group compared with placebo and with pre-treatment levels. No significant adverse effects of flaxseed were reported. This study showed, for the first time, the potential of dietary modification with flaxseed and its components such as the lignans, in reducing tumor growth in patients with breast cancer comparable to the effects seen with preoperative tamoxifen.

They used ground flaxseeds in this study (flax meal). You can buy flax meal but it goes bad quickly so the best way in my opinion is grind them in a  grinder and throw them in your oatmeal. Before grinding the seed's shell protects it and it will keep that way for a long time--once ground I think you only have roughly 48 hours (could be wrong on that--its something like that) before they go rancid--its cheaper and easier to just buy the seeds and grind them then to buy flaxseed meal


Will Brink:" The implication of the above study is obvious for women, but men reading this should see the clear potential benefits: flax seeds and high lignan flax oil may be a natural anti estrogen as powerful as Nolvadex and would explain why I have seen reductions in gyno in men taking high amounts of flax oil"

Flaxseeds are about 90cents a lb--one
tablespoon is 50 calories and 2.5grams of protein--you can get them at any health food store in the bulk bin

Mrfatass:I have been around a LONG time, even though my name on this board does not show it..tee hee.
I can honestly say, this thread is the BEST thread I have read in 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doggcrapp: thanks much appreciated

Dogg--my question. Have you followed this type of work out and cycle theory while dieting?

Doggcrapp: Yes but I am a firm believer in using cardio to take off bodyfat than screwing with the diet that built you all that muscle. I see the main problem of unsuccessfull precontest bodybuilders is they drastically change their diet that made them a huge bodybuilder in the first place. Its almost like a panic comes over them. These are the guys you see walking around huge offseason and show up at contests like scarecrows and losing 30lbs of muscle along the way. I like people to stay with the diet, but unlike in offseason to be real strict with it at night(i.e. low to trace carbs after 6-7pm as stated previously). Combined with the low to trace carbs after 6-7pm I have them do 45 minutes of cardio upon awakening (with fat burning compounds)and that works for almost every single person like a charm. In the rare case (hasnt happened yet)that it doesnt work for someone--I will make the low carb phase one hour earlier (5pm)--I havent had a problem yet getting anyone shredded so until I do theres not much more I can say....In my opinion the most important thing to do is not to panic and radically change your diet! Your continued training and eating like it is in the offseason is what is going to keep every iota of muscle that you have built on you...let cardio do its work and take the bodyfat off of you.

i.e. I wonder what something ike animal's animalbolics and this type of training and drug protocal would produce?????

Doggcrapp: I really dont know the answer to that question. I havent tried it.

I feel the worst diet is the diet that someone cant stand to be on and their pissed because they cant eat something. If I am training them (dieting wise) the 45 minute cardio is mandatory(no exceptions) -the low to trace carbs after 6-7pm is mandatory (no exceptions) but if they want chocolate chip cookies or ice cream or something to that effect I tell them to blast it, eat as many cookies as you can possiblly eat so you dont crave it for at least two weeks. They can do that if they follow my two rules--1)they have to gulp down a protein drink before eating anything like that. 2) it has to be before 6pm. I do this for two reasons--mentally for their spirits and two probaly for my peace of mind--I have it stuck in my head that the body strives for homeostasis at all times and losing bodyfat is a war - I like to think I am tricking the body into thinking its not on a diet---and boom before it knows what hit it-6pm comes around/glycogen stores gradually utilized for rest of the night and during  and POW 45 minutes of cardio first thing in morning (rest of diminished glycogen stores and then bodyfat)

NPC here,
DC I have been on your program for around six weeks. It is for sure an excellent program. As we all know everyone is different and I modified your program to fit my needs. I feel like my body is responding very well. I have been clean for this entire program and I am still making gains. Gains are very hard to come by when you achieve the level I am at---especially when not on anything. I was curious if I could add a second exersize to each muscle when I am on and my recovery time is increased.

Doggcrapp: Geez NPC I wish you did my methods juiced to the hilt so I could have some bragging rights to all the muscle you put on (kidding)...I know what you mean about training clean after you have been reached an advanced status pounding away for a number of years--you start doubting whether you can gain any muscle clean anymore. I see that you modified it legswise and with the rest of your body playing catchup with your legs, I see no problem with that. As far as adding extra exercises that comes down to your own deductions about your training..."if you add exercises will you recover enough to be able to train balls to the wall again 3 days later?" I have found the majority of people cant, especially extremely heavy lifters which I feel you are- but I might be wrong and your recovery might be extraordinary. Remember this though, its never been proven to me that recovery after a certain "breaking in" point keeps getting better....cardiovascular wise yes....muscle recovery wise, I am not convinced. Lets say you have a twin brother who just started lifting 2 weeks ago, 175lbs might seem heavy for him in the bench press while 475lbs might be heavy for you. The facts are you're recoveries are going to be similiar (yours might be slightly better)--heres the difference...your lifting 475lbs for reps while he is lifting 175lbs. With similiar recovery rates between you two whose body (and joints)are taking much more of a pounding and who probaly needs as much recovery as possible?

Paranoid Q: Why not do drop sets instead of RP? The 12-15 breaths makes it feel like 3 sets with short rest periods. From what (little) I know - Drop sets would cause more fiber recruitment because fatigued fibers have stopped firing. RP allows the same fibers to recoup, negating deeper fiber recruitment. I personally find Drop Sets to be more intense. When I fail on a heavy weight, I dont get out-of-breath etc. It just feels like I cant generate any further innervation of the muscle. Perhaps this is neurological failure and not muscle? BTW I have been lifting for 14 yrs.

Doggcrapp: because my overall plan is progression of strength. I beleive incredible strength "gains" with the right (protein) diet intake/anabolic environment/stretching mix results in incredible size gains. Lets use benching for example. John Doe benches 225 to complete failure for 6 reps straight. What method will get John Doe to 225 for 15 reps straight? Dropping the weight to 200 and doing more reps and then dropping the weight to 180 and doing more reps "?" or having John Doe drive himself to rest pause 225 for 11 to 12 reps whereas he could normally only do six. My whole opinions are based around making people the absolute strongest bodybuilder that they can genetically be. I cant do that if I am dropping back in weight instead of constantly pounding forward. People have been building huge quads with squats for years--You take 15 second rests during grueling sets of squats all the time just to get some air into your lungs and just to get your bearings back to pound out a couple more reps. With John Doe pretty much doing double his normal maximum output in benches (12 reps compared to 6 reps-albeit with the rest pauses) his pectorals have to get thicker to compensate for such an increased output over the norm. Dropsets are intense no doubt and maybe down the road we shall see abstracts that show them causing hyperplasia (due to the stress time under load) but I am trying to make massive protein ingesting, heavy slag iron lifting, fascia stretching, 300lb monsters and I think rest pause is the quickest way there.

Paranoid:Cool...so what exactly do you do for legs? Quads in particular? 1 50 rep set?

Doggcrapp: a typical quad workout for me is super heavy weights on either a squat, a leg press or a hack squat for 15 to 30 reps (the last 7 reps for me is truly succeed or death)

Also DogCrap- is negatives with lighter weights such as used as effective as heavy negatives? (ie- from what I read heavy negatives are needed to induce muscle hypertrophy. Heavy as in >100% concentric max weights)

doggcrapp: every study I have ever read stated eccentric reps is where the most hypertrophic activity happens and the concentric is a priming phase. You can look at olympic lifters and some of the guys in lumberjack competitions as people who do primarily positive movements. Powerlifters have to do a strict eccentric phases in their lifts and their physiques show it. Ever notice every elite gymnast out there has advanced muscularity? Think of some of the eccentric movements they have to do repeatedly.

BLADE:- are you by any chance the trainer J.Mueller talked about in the early issues of Anabolic Extreme? His hardcore workouts - series seems to be influenced by your ideas, namely one set of rest-pause on every exercise.

DOGGCRAPP: That would be me. I like my anonymity of this board though. Jason is truly one of the strongest bulls out there no doubt.

BLADE:I must question the validity of going to failure on every set, though - you tax the CNS excessively, and the CNS is usually the culprit when you see signs of overtraining. As long as you do more reps or weight from workout to workout, the stimulus for hypertrophy should be sufficient.

Doggcrapp: if this is true I would have a slew of people that I train that would quickly be forever overtrained, lethargic, no appetite, chronic joint problems etc.....I dont. I just have people that are continually 50-80lbs larger than they were 2 years prior. CNS, CNS, CNS, I keep hearing people so worried about the CNS. You tell me what would tax the CNS more? A leg workout consisting of squats, leg presses, and hacks done for 13 to 20 sets in a workout or one set of hacks for 20 reps hard? The total working sets for any single workout I have is 6! I seriously doubt 6 sets is going to stress out the CNS when a short while ago (the 80's) everyone and their brother was doing 14-22 set (per bodypart!) workouts for 3.5 hours. I do agree rest pausing is not for everyone and some people reading this might overtrain doing it. If that is the case they might have to do straight sets with maybe a couple statics at the end. It amazes me everyone is so damn afraid of overtraining they are scared to even train hard anymore. In 9 days time I do a total of 3 sets for chest. Theres people in this newsgroup who do 15 sets for chest in every workout. I make bets of 100 dollars with alot of the people I train--I tell them I will have them up 40lbs in one years time at the same bodyfat. But they have to listen and do everything I tell them to do 100%. I havent lost a bet yet. I have also never had a person I personally trained go to another method of training--ever. I am just throwing my ideas out there on this thread and anyone reading this can either use it or chuck it. I like making people big. Its fun for me and I think its the hardest thing to do in bodybuilding. It takes 16 weeks to get shredded. It takes at least 4-6 years to really get to a point where people kind of get freaked out by someones size. What should be the focus?!?! I feel sad for people who have the desire to stand out in a crowd and be an elite bodybuilder yet they have been training for 5 years and noone even knows they lift. Thats embarrassing. Those are the people I can help and want to help. I cant help people who are set in their ways.

bladeo you ever implement periods (e.g. a week) of complete rest to "lower" the muscle's stimulus threshold?

doggcrapp: stated before-four weeks all out 2 weeks cruising--on the 2 weeks cruising I use this time to do straight sets usually and/or try out different exercises Ive been thinking about yet still train as hard as I can with straight sets (all the while trying to get the hpta kicked back up)

Blade:And the cycles you recommend are as simple as possible (e.g. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Doggcrapp: people are out looking for the magic stack in East Bulgaria while the most important compounds for gains are right smack in front of them. I'm sorry but if xxxx a week of xxxx and xxxxx EOD (at the highest ranges) arent going to put gobs of muscle on you, its time to take up golf.

paranoid:*its hard to keep finding people to spot me
*negatives- not an exact science in time
anyway - is there any modifications that would still work?

Doggcrapp: I train by myself alot of the time because of my work hours. The smythe machine and the power rack with the safety bars are my best buddies. I will never do an exercise where I cannot save myself somehow.
Modifications like more sets? Everyone lifts at different intensities I have no way of monitoring how hard someone lifts unless I am there. I leave that up to you paranoid, if you want to do straight sets with statics at the end thats fine as long as your goal is to be the strongest MF that you can possibly become. You cannot keep adding sets because there is no way you will recover continually (muscle, joints etc) In fact the more advanced you get (with the more weight your using and more stress on connective tissues etc) the more abbreviated you have to try to make the workout (to recover in time for your next one)

skullfucked:Here's the exercises that I can reccomend that aren't too hard to do rest/pause on.
- reverse grip benches on the smith machine (this is THE ultimate tricep mass builder)
DOGGCRAPP: I CANT AGREE WITH THIS MORE, I THINK THIS IS THE BEST TRICEP EXERCISE EVER

Mondo said:
A ? about the 4 wks on and 2 wk cruise cycle method. I dont realy start to get a big push from xxxx till the +/-5th week, then the strength/size/pumps come on like a freight train. I have only been doing it eod at varying amts up to xxxx. I feel that if I only went out 4 wks I would be cutting my best gains out. In your opinion would ed bring the gains up in a shorter period of time, I know levels are more constant on ed but I dont think its realy going to change my xperience of week 5 + being the best part. Any ideas, is going 5 + 2 or 6 + 2 an alternative or is this just to long for this type of cycle.

Doggcrapp: Definitely nothing on this post is written in stone--im just throwing my thoughts out there. For example whereas before I felt I was skimming the overtraining threshhold with my training--lately I have been using such unbelievable heavy weights and pushing so hard in my workouts with rest pauses/ statics and burns that I now feel I am going into overtraining. Im not feeling fatigued because my workouts are so short, and my weights are still always going upward but muscle soreness is lingering longer than usual. So I will throw an extra rest day in the mix, either going 2 on 2 off, or splitting my body into 3 parts and training 2 on one off. Same thing with my suggested 4 on 2 cruise method mondo. It was just derived from my opinion that keeping the hpta as optimal as possible shores up all the (sickness, depression, lethargy, injury, recovery, gains) problems people have. I would say go with what you think works best for you--if thats 6 on 2 off, your intuition will know best. The main objective is that your doing the 2 week cruising some time in there to get "normalized" (as much as possible)while 'Johnny Juicer' over there will do his 12-16 week straight cycle, use 2 weeks of clomid when he gets off--sore joints--a nasty cold--weights dropping--and ends up keeping 6lbs of the 22 he just thought he gained. What really is the sad part of it all is that Testosterone and Fina are relatively cheap yet the compounds you need to use to keep regulated are much more expensive ---but the cost to benefit ratio is worth it.

Southwestdreams:Hey DC after reading this tread several times, I absolutely believe this is the most informative thread I have ever read!!!

doggcrapp: appreciated--

skullfucked did you help anyone precontest in the San Diego championships at Pacific beach middle school 2 weeks ago? Seeing Jay Cutler guest pose reiterated to myself the following points. Heres a guy hard as a rock at 287lbs at 5'8 with striations. The arena was packed with bodybuilders and alot of large ones at that. There is no way in my mind I will believe that Jay Cutler although dwarfing any other bodybuilder in that arena, uses more than anyone else in that arena because of that fact. I would estimate that 25-50 or so bodybuilders in that arena were using as much if not much more so than cutler yet still arent even remotely close to his level. Case in point (im using Jay because he grew up 20 minutes f


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 11:01
Extreme stretching
chest=flat bench 90lb dumbells chest high--lungs full of air--first 10 seconds drop down into deepest stretch and then next 50 seconds really push the stretch (this really really hurts) but do it faithfully and come back in this message board in 4 weeks and tell me if your chest isn't much fuller and rounder

triceps-seated on a flat bench-my back up against the barbell---75lb dumbell in my hand behind my head(like in an overhead dumbell extension)--sink dumbell down into position for the first 10 seconds and then an agonizing 50 seconds slightly leaning back and pushing the dumbell down with the back of my head

shoulders-this one is tough to describe--put barbell in squat rack shoulder height--face away from it and reach back and grab it palms up (hands on bottom of bar)---walk yourself outward until you are on your heels and the stretch gets painfull--then roll your shoulders downward and hold for 60 seconds

biceps--just like the above position but hold barbell palms down now (hands on top of bar)--sink down in a squatting position first and if you can hack it into a kneeling position and then if you can hack that sink your butt down--60 seconds--I cannot make it 60 seconds--i get to about 45--its too painfull--if you can make it 60 seconds you are either inhuman or you need to raise the bar up another rung

back--honestly for about 3 years my training partner and I would hang a 100lb dumbell from our waist and hung on the widest chinup bar (with wrist straps) to see who could get closest to 3 minutes--I never made it--i think 2 minutes 27 seconds was my record--but my back width is by far my best bodypart--i pull on a doorknob or stationary equipment with a rounded back now and its way too hard too explain here--just try it and get your feel for it

hamstrings--either leg up on a high barbell holding my toe and trying to force my leg straight with my free hand for an excruciating painfull 60 seconds or another exercise I could only show people and not type here

quads--facing a barbell in a power rack about hip high --grip it and simultaneously sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat underneath it while going up on your toes. then straighten your arms and lean as far back as you can---60 seconds and if this one doesn't make you hate my guts and bring tears to your eyes nothing will---do this one faithfully and tell me in 4 weeks if your quads dont look alot different than they used to

calves--my weak bodypart that i couldnt get up too par until 2 years ago when i finally thought it out and figured out how to make them grow (with only one set twice a week too) I dont need to stretch calves after because when i do calves I explode on the positive and take 5 seconds to get back to full stretch and then 15 seconds at the very bottom "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand etc" --15 seconds stretching at the bottom thinking and trying to flex my toes toward my shin--it is absolutely unbearable and you will most likely be shaking and want to give up at about 7 reps (i always go for 12reps with maximum weights)--do this on a hack squat or a leg press--my calves have finally taken off due to this and caught up to the rest of me thank god


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 11:02
Overtrening:
----------------------------------------------------

Three key exercises are picked for each bodypart (hypothetically we will use flat dumbell bench press, incline smythe bench press, and hammer press)---USING ONLY ONE OF THOSE EXERCISES PER WORKOUT you rotate these in order and take that exercise to it's ultimate strength limit (where at that point you change the exercise and get brutally strong on that new movement too). That can happen in 4 weeks or that can happen 2 years later but it will happen some time (You cannot continually gain strength to where you eventually bench pressing 905 for reps obviously)---Sometime later when you come back to that original exercise you will start slightly lower than your previous high and then soar past it without fail---
As you progress as a bodybuilder you need to take even more rest time and recovery time. READ THAT AGAIN PLEASE AS YOU PROGRESS AS A BODYBUILDER IN SIZE AND STRENGTH YOU NEED TO TAKE EVEN MORE REST AND RECOVERY TIME. EXAMPLE: My recovery ability is probaly slightly better now than when i started lifting 13-14 years ago but only slightly...but back then I was benching 135lbs and squatting 155lbs in my first months of lifting. Now I am far and away the strongest person in my gym using poundages three to six times greater than when I first started lifting. With my recovery ability being what it is both then and now do you think I need more time to recover from a 155lb squat for 8reps or a 500lb squat for 8reps? Obviously the answer is NOW! This past year I have been really pounding the slag iron as heavy and hard as I can in preparation of trying to get onstage at about 252lbs early next year. That means a hard 300lbs to me offseason and im pretty damn close to that right now. The gains I have made in strength this past year even at my lifting level are nothing short of phenomenal (in my mind). With those strength gains comes the ratio of recovery factor. Whereas a year ago i was training 2 on one off 2 on one off and getting away with it with extreme stretching etc....about 2 months ago i took an extra day off on the weekend because of work obligations and I just started to feel somewhat tired because of how heavy my weights were. If my strength keeps progressing at this level I am eventually going to have to train Monday Wenesday Friday Monday Wenesday Friday like outlined above simply because I am reaching poundages that are so far and away above my beginning weights-I have to take the neccesary recovery precautions. I am still training as often as I possibly can per bodypart--thats key to me. The more times I can train a bodypart in a years time and recover will mean the fastest growth possible! Ive done the training a bodypart every 10 days system in the past and while recovering from that--the gains were so slow over time I got frustrated and realized the frequency of growth phases(for me)was to low. I want to gain 104 times a year instead of 52--the fastest rate that I can accumalate muscle (YET AGAIN WITHIN ONES RECOVERY ABILITY-I CANT SAY THAT ENOUGH)
In the past 4-5 years that I have been slowly changing my philosophies of training Ive been gaining so fast the last couple of years its been pretty amazing. Ive got my training down to extremely low volume (a rest pause set or ONE straight set) with extreme stretching, and with recovery issues always in the back of my mind. Like Iron Addict I realize the number one problem in this sport that will make or break a bodybuilder is overtraining. Simply as this--you overtrain your done as a bodybuilder gainswise. Kaput. Zip. A waste of valuable time. But I also think there is a problem with underfrequency (only if you can train hardcore enough with extremely low volume to recover)--As stated in an earlier post I skirt right along the line of overtraining--I am right there...ive done everything in my power (Stretching, glutamine, "super supplements", )to keep me on this side of the line and its worked for me. I believe everyone has different recovery abilities--the job of a bodybuilder is to find out what their individual recovery ability is and do the least amount of hardcore training to grow so they can train that bodypart as frequently as possible. For anyone who wants to follow my lead that would mean starting out with straight sets training 4 times in 8 days and strictly guaging yourself recovery wise with every step up you take (statics, rest pauses)--i hope this clears some things up


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 11:05
Den gode gamle stickyen, men her også med en del kostholdsanbefalinger. Tror ikke det er i den som de fleste har lest??

Doggcrap semi condensed
here it is, my training bible. I went through the 60 pages of info on the cycles for pennies thread and a few others around the net and came up with 22 pages of what i thought was good information and really hammers the message home. I still suggest reading the thread if you can, and i'm always finding new info whenever i go back. I started reading this stuff in august and have since added ~35lb. and assload of weight to all of my lifts (still not impressive, but i'm working on em).



ok first I have to go over some principles I believe in first regarding training and Ill go to work and hit more on the training later on.
a) I believe he who makes the greatest strength gains (in a controlled fashion)as a bodybuilder, makes the greatest muscle gains--note: i said strength gains--everyone knows someone naturally strong who can bench 400 yet isnt that big. Going from a beginning 375 bench to 400 isnt that great of a strength gain and wont result in much of a muscle gain. But if i show you someone who went from 150 to 400 on a benchpress, that guy will have about 2.5 inches more of muscle thickness on his pecs. That is an incredible strength gain and will equal out into an incredible muscle gain

b) I havent seen a guy who can squat 500 for 20 reps, bench press 500 for 15 and deadlift 500 for 15 who was small yet ---but I have seen alot and i mean alot of people in the gym and on these forums that are a buck 65 or two and change--shouting that you dont have to lift heavy to get big. (in an extremely rare case you will see a naturally strong powerlifter who has to curb calories to stay in a weight class and that is the reason he doesnt get bigger)

c)training is all about adaption--in simple terms you lift a weight and your muscle has one of 2 choices--either tear completely under the load (which is incredibly rare and what we dont want)or the muscle lifts the weight and protects itself by remodeling and getting bigger to protect itself against the load (next time). If the weight gets heavier--the muscle has to again remodel and get bigger again to handle it. You can superset, superslow, giant set, pre exhaust all day long but the infinite adaption is load---meaning heavier and heavier weights is the only infinite thing you can do in your training. Intensity is finite. Volume is finite (or infinite if you want to do 9000 sets per bodypart)...everything else is finite. The Load is infinite and heavier and heavier weights used(I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT SOME BUCK 58 POUND GURU SAYS)will make the biggest bodybuilder. (add high protein, glutamine and drugs to the mix and you have one large person)

d) The largest pro bodybuilders in the last 10 years (outside of Paul Dillett who is a genetic alien and I think could grow off of mowing lawns) are also the very strongest-(kovacs, prince, coleman, yates, francois, nasser (although he trains lighter now) For anyone who argues that they have seen so and so bodybuilder and he trains light---well I will bet you he isnt gaining rapid size anymore and that his greatest size increases were when he was going for his pro card and he was training shit heavy. He will convince himself and others that he is "making the best gains of his career" though cuz noone likes to think what they are presently doing isnt working and they are running in place do they.... Sadly heavy drug use can make up for alot of training fallacies.

e) Please think of the times when you make the best size gains---the first time is in the first 2 years of lifting WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR BEST STRENGTH GAINS TOO! then things start to slow down. Whats the next time? You start using steroids and boom what happens? YOUR TRAINING WEIGHTS GO FLYING UP. And you get dramatically bigger-(im taking into effect protein assimilation, recovery etc also). The greatest strength gains you make will result in also the most rapid size gains. (if your taking in the protein requirements of a 12 year old girl scout then you can discount yourself from the above group)
I beleive in Powerbuilding not bodybuilding--using techniques that build the most strength gains in the fastest time possible while using the most effective exercises for that person. I am positive I could take 2 twins--have one do his own thing training wise, but do the same drugs and nutrition as the twin I train......come back a year later and the twin I trained would have 25lbs more muscle
f)Ive seen powerlifters (who catch alot of guff from bodybuilders for being "fat") diet down and come in and destroy bodybuilders in bodybuilding shows time and time again. Over and over. Powerlifters and Powerbodybuilders are by far the thickest guys onstage when and if they decide to enter bodybuilding shows.
g) heavy is relative--it doesnt mean 3 reps --- it means as heavy as you can go on that exercise no matter if it is 5 reps or 50 reps. I personally like to do hack squats for 20 reps but I use about 6 plates on each side rock bottom--thats as heavy as I can go on that exercise for 20 reps. I could do sets of 6 and probaly use maybe 8 or 9 plates a side but my legs (and most people I train) grow best from heavy and 15-50 reps.
so now you guys know i believe in the heaviest training possible (safely)--ok i got to go to work--


Mondo I find 9.5 out of 10 times that someone stops gaining its his diet that is the problem. Eight out of 10 times that same lifter wrongly thinks he is overtraining or his workouts are off. The other 2 out of 10 times that person thinks his supplements or 'juice' is the problem. I keep trying to brainwash people SUPPLY AND DEMAND, SUPPLY AND DEMAND--if you can make a demand (hard enough training) you can meet the supply (abundance of protein grams). I love when people come to me with this problem of not making gains anymore and they go thru this intricate workout, supplement, and sauce fix and all i say is "double the serving size on all your protein drinks and make sure the post workout drink is 100grams at least." Boom! they take off gaining again. I know you don't know me from adam but trust me on this one. Food (protein) is your anabolic. Anyone in this forum who is at a true stalemate, I ask you to try 500 grams a day of protien for 6 months and then come back in here and tell me what you look like. Training is the engine, food (protein) is the gasoline and juice is the Nitrous oxide system. Mondo i would say hit 2 grams per lb of bodyweight that you want to be=500grams. That could be about 200-250 in protein drink grams and you can easily eat the rest


Well if your not meeting your energy requirements some of the protein your ingesting is going to be used as a fuel source. I like omega-3's (flaxseeds) and extra virgin olive oils (mono unsaturated fat)--118 calories per tablespoon. I throw 2-3 tablespoons in my morning and afternoon shakes but not in the post workout or bedtime ones (self explanatory). Go slow with olive oil or you will be seatbelting yourself to the toilet the first couple days. As far as diet I am like Palumbo in that aspect...I like high protein, moderate (good) fats and low to moderate carbs..I eat the amount of protein grams I want to ingest first and if its before 6-7pm I satisfy the rest of my hunger with carbs. If I go to mcdonalds I'll blast as many hamburgers as I can and skip the fries. (laughing) but true. After 6-7pm I will go high protein and trace to low carbs (example huge steak and alot of a vegetable but no rice, pasta or bread). This is the way I have found thru trial and error that I can keep myself and people I train fairly lean but still have them gaining at the highest rate. Im sorry im not a calorie counter at all. Im a protein gram counter. I weigh myself and others once a month on the same scale and if they are not gaining I already know they are on high protein so I fix the problem with added mono unsat's (olive oil), flaxseeds and some extra carbs here or there. I trained a 188 lb (former cornerback-NFL only one year) and got him up to 232 and then he stopped gaining. I tried everything to get him going again but after his protein intake I just couldnt get him to put enough food down the hatch. And I really got on his ass about it too. He was burning up every thing. He loved ice cream and I said fuck it--get your protein in but pound down 1/2 gallon to a gallon a day before 6pm--he did and very quickly after that shot up up to 265 or so (with striations everywhere still). Moral of the story? I got no idea--dont follow that method.



Yes but I am a firm believer in using cardio to take off bodyfat than screwing with the diet that built you all that muscle. I see the main problem of unsuccessfull precontest bodybuilders is they drastically change their diet that made them a huge bodybuilder in the first place. Its almost like a panic comes over them. These are the guys you see walking around huge offseason and show up at contests like scarecrows and losing 30lbs of muscle along the way. I like people to stay with the diet, but unlike in offseason to be real strict with it at night(i.e. low to trace carbs after 6-7pm as stated previously). Combined with the low to trace carbs after 6-7pm I have them do 45 minutes of cardio upon awakening (with fat burning compounds)and that works for almost every single person like a charm. In the rare case (hasnt happened yet)that it doesnt work for someone--I will make the low carb phase one hour earlier (5pm)--I havent had a problem yet getting anyone shredded so until I do theres not much more I can say....In my opinion the most important thing to do is not to panic and radically change your diet! Your continued training and eating like it is in the offseason is what is going to keep every iota of muscle that you have built on you...let cardio do its work and take the bodyfat off of you.

i.e. I wonder what something ike animal's animalbolics and this type of training and drug protocal would produce?????

Doggcrapp: I really dont know the answer to that question. I havent tried it.

I feel the worst diet is the diet that someone cant stand to be on and their pissed because they cant eat something. If I am training them (dieting wise) the 45 minute cardio is mandatory(no exceptions) -the low to trace carbs after 6-7pm is mandatory (no exceptions) but if they want chocolate chip cookies or ice cream or something to that effect I tell them to blast it, eat as many cookies as you can possiblly eat so you dont crave it for at least two weeks. They can do that if they follow my two rules--1)they have to gulp down a protein drink before eating anything like that. 2) it has to be before 6pm. I do this for two reasons--mentally for their spirits and two probaly for my peace of mind--I have it stuck in my head that the body strives for homeostasis at all times and losing bodyfat is a war - I like to think I am tricking the body into thinking its not on a diet---and boom before it knows what hit it-6pm comes around/glycogen stores gradually utilized for rest of the night and during  and POW 45 minutes of cardio first thing in morning (rest of diminished glycogen stores and then bodyfat)


I am under the opinion of "if it aint broke dont fix it"---meaning what you did training and protein wise to be a huge bodybuilder in the offseason will keep you being a huge bodybuilder in a contest. I like people to train heavy still (at a safe rep range) and keep their protein high (with low carbs at nite) and let the cardio and supplements take the fat off. Im sorry to be so simple but an hour of cardio in the morning upon arising 16 weeks out (# of weeks depending on your bodyfat) with whatever fat burning compound/s you want to use (usnic acid, ECA, or clen etc, etc) during the day is going to get you shredded. Severely changing your diet, panicking, being obsessive/compulsive with precontest cardio etc is the surefire way of coming in flat, catabolized and a shadow of what you should be up there. (I trained a guy a couple years back who wanted to compete ---he was a hard 287lbs and I told him he wasnt ready (he had just gotten up to 287lbs--I brought him up from the 240's...but I felt he needed to get some of his weaker bodyparts up--calves, more back width)--he wanted me to train him for the show but I refused and he was pissed. He went for it on his own and this guy was so obsessive compulsive he ate tuna or chicken and rice 4-5 times a day and cardio 2-3 times a day for 45 minutes to an hour for his whole precontest. He weighed in at 206lbs onstage (206!!!) he was 287 fairly hard in offseason. I shouldnt even have to say he got smoked--finishing 13th I believe out of 16 competitors. I feel if he had his head on straight he could of come in at 237 to 242lbs and done much better (still no calves)---I like to see people get inside out-- just nasty shredded 14 days out and cruise in---

....In the simplest terms--no matter what way you train--if you are way stronger than last year, 6 months ago, 3 months ago, last month, last week you are getting continually bigger no doubt about it.

3)Watching, Listening, and observing. Science has it's place in everything but I am unimpressed that many times it doesn't prove out. At one time scientists said steroids were useless. Dball on paper doesnt look like it would do great things but it does. We have drugs that on paper look like they would be the godsend and really dont do jack. Hyperplasia has been talked about for years now--science cant come up with a training or drug protocol for it. Look at Animal he has disproven with his many kits (removing estrogen from synovex) and number of mg trenbolone per cc in his fina kits---what science said couldnt be done! So I give science some virtue but I put a huge amount of weight in "power of numbers"--I dont care what so called expert or psuedo scientist says, if 198 out of 200 bodybuilders says "this stuff works" i go with that! HMB, lutalyse, etc were highly touted on paper--the bottom line is a huge percentage of bodybuilders said "they suck!"---Ill go with that science. With that said, I started observing what all the people out there training who werent making any gains compared to all the people out there who were making gains. The people using lighter weights and eating 3-4 times a day were the exact same year after year after year. Sadly as you get bigger, other elite bodybuilders gravitate toward you whereas when you are a peon they dont even give you a second look. This happened to me...I started to get much larger from coming to the conclusions heavy weights and large amounts of protein are the fast track way of doing things. Soon alot of the bigger bodybuilders in the area were asking me some questions. Shortly after that a guy name Donnie Lemiuex who was Mr Massachusetts twice (also way up there in the AAU Universe, and pretty much won everything on the east coast for awhile) and I started talking. He sure didnt start out the strongest guy around but he ended up being by far the strongest bodybuilder I knew of in that area and hence also by far the largest. You start talking to that elite guy and then this one and soon your talking to a bunch of pros and top amateurs. I started taking in common aspects to their dieting and training. Awhile after that I got to talking to guys like Tom Prince, Phil Hernon, Vic Richards, Curtis Leffler, Jimmy Mentis and a slew of top amateurs (some who are now pro). These guys by and large were eating huge amounts of protein and training with incredibly heavy weights. Theres a monopoly of bodybuilders out there who are taking a boatload of drugs yet eat 150grams of protein a day and squat with 225lbs and they are getting nowhere.

Along with that I thought, how can I eat the most amount of protein and not get fat as hell (like I was doing in the beginning) and what happens to others who do that.....the answer was curb carbs back after 5-6pm... Third for me was which supplements actually work and which are a waste of money. Fourth for me was the 4 on 2 cruising so you could gain at an optimal rate and try to keep the hpta in check....Just my theories no more no less---hell if someone comes up with a better method than the 4+2 that looks feasible to me, Ill be the first to jump on it... (this is getting long I better shut up)




Im not a great fan of dropsets, I personally like to see people rest pause out heavy weights instead of dropping weight off the bar so they can do reps. I believe Trevor and Duvall are very large people because they both use back breaking weights in their training (especially Trevor)---our theories are somewhat similiar--a) low volume b)use heavy slag iron to failure and then go beyond that (he does it with dropsets and I do it with rest pauses)---in my quest to forever get stronger(bigger), in my opinion dropping weight off the bar so I can do reps is not going to make me 'personally' stronger. Hence I use rest pauses (I should state I have my own way of restpausing which is a higher rep range than someone like Mentzer and Yates use to advocate). Mentzer I believe used to rest pause singles out which I think can be incredibly dangerous. Back to the subject: Trevor is a good guy and I believe Duvall is looking so incredible this year (from what Ive heard)because Trevor has him using heavier weights than Matt has ever handled. Again I say: pick your poison--either of our training is going to rough



Lets say "John Smith" is a 275lb bodybuilder holding 16% bodyfat in the offseason. He is smooth but his heavy training and high protein eating have made it possible for his body to hold 275lbs with probaly an ideal contest weight of 226-234lbs or so. Since his present diet is allowing him to hold a "hypothetical" 230lbs of lean mass, what do you think is going to happen on a "cutting diet"....oh he will get ripped but probaly at a 60-40 or 70-30 bodyfat to muscle mass ratio loss. My opinion is to leave the training heavy (more on that when I answer densitys post) and leave the diet 90% what it is. The only changes I would make are to be religiously strict with low/trace carbs after 6pm and drop dairy 6 weeks out. Let the cardio take off your bodyfat! Forty five minutes at a slightly brisk walk on a treadmill first thing in the morning on an empty stomach--on every day except leg days will do it. Add in maybe usnic acid and a thermogenic and your going to end up inside out shredded. Thats from a bodybuilding standpoint as I hate seeing someone gain 15lbs of muscle from training so hard in the offseason just to panic diet it all off trying to get ripped. In a general everyday sense for people who dont care about losing 8-20lbs of muscle mass on their way down to leaness,--cardio and a cutting diet will work faster for them.



So Woody you personally know all 483 or so pro bodybuildrs in this world? Woody I am not going to start naming names here of competitors I know or have known as thats namedropping and stupid but I know alot are right at the 5500-6500 range and some are right around where I am and some are beyond me. I am a extreme ectomorphic person and I have had to eat my way up to 290lbs. At this weight I am not shredded (who would be at 290?)but can see the line down the middle of my abs and the top row of abs also. But again who the hell cares?!?! Thats not what this post is about-- I talk about superheavyweights alot because thats where I am at. Of course smaller guys and people with incredible genetics eat less. We arent talking about people with incredible muscle building genetics are we? Do you think someone like Instynct is ever going to need my help? Fuck no! That guy at 5'7 can weigh 261lbs offseason fairly hard. Thats amazing and thats amazing genetics on top of hard work. Im just trying to help people who have been lifting 3-6 years who noone comes up and asks them "are you a bodybuilder"--those are the people who could use my help.


A precontest diet--wow great!!! Thats really going to put muscle on the members of this forum! Lets all hear how they dieted down so we can put gobs of muscle on....Dont forget to put Duffy's 1-2 sustanon a day and mega anadrol stack in there too ok...John Sherman (smaller pro I wouldnt doubt he eats much as he hasnt gained a pound since he got his pro card)--next Paul Demayo (from Boston where I am from)-first show he ever did I believe at 20 years old he weighed 238lbs!!! When you have genetics like that to build muscle you dont have to go the extra mile with diet---from that time till the time he turned pro (many, many years)he only gained about18 more lbs of muscle onstage! That sucks for a muscle gain with that guys genetics! Just think what he could of done with proper eating... Does Joe Mcneal take credit for that paltry muscle gain? Flex used him for that one show and hasnt used him since...why? And I cant even believe you brought up Chris Duffy--this guy was a Mcdonalds and Burger King maniac in the offseason and everyone knows it.....Tom Prince told me about Joe Mcneal-he has a great repuatation in South Florida FOR A PRECONTEST COACH!!! -I believe Mike Ashley has used him in the past too--hes great for precontest---what the hell does a precontest coach have to do with building muscle?!?!?! NOTHING!!! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! They tell you what to eat and how to cardio when dieting down for a show. Putting major amounts of muscle on people is the hardest thing to do in this sport bar none...I really dont care about precontest coaches--they are a dime a dozen. I sure as hell dont want to be known as a percontest coach--Duchaine was and he had no idea how to put muscle on people besides drugs. I want to be known only for a guy who can put alot of muscle mass on people who thought they couldnt get there. Now if you want to talk about Chad Nichols and Jon Parillo and some other good coaches who put alot of muscle on people --then we have a discussion.


One last thing--I believe anyone in this forum can turn their bodies into high protein-food processing machines. In fact I dont know of a better legal anabolic than hitting twice your bodyweight with protein grams over a definite amount of time. The difference is I have always had a very tough time gaining weight and I have to keep cardio episodes to 2 or less times a week to gain weight. Someone else in this forum who wants to build muscle on "the fast track" can get their 500 grams of protein in (along with moderate carbs and good fats) but might have to do a slight moderate cardio 2-6 times a week to keep lean. Again like recovery ability, I dont generalize and put people all in one boat. An endomorph and ectomorph who have the exact same muscle building genetic potential will not have the exact same bodyfat genetics....while each might have to take in 450grams of protein to build muscle at an optimal rate, the endomorph is going to probaly have to hit the treadmill- walking 4 times a week. I would much rather have people do things that way than curb back food (protein) intake to keep lean


But Woody Im talking about the most rapid accumalation of muscle mass possible while trying to keep bodyfat in check------------im going to give you some observations as Ive been around this sport for a long time and seen too many competitors and what they do--and you can do what you want with it

1)Ive seen black guys gain bigtime muscle eating the crappiest diets in the world and the most half ass workouts you would ever see due to their incredible genetics

2)I havent seen a black guy yet with incredible genetics who didnt have to eventually boatload the food to get above that 260lb mark and into the superhuge pro 300lbs plus range (vic richards, ronnie coleman etc(8000-10000 calories a day as per his interview in latest musclemag intl)

3)ive seen a million and one bodybuilders with good genetics get into the 210-230LB (stripper look) range with nutrient dense 2800 calorie diets and heavy drugs but then top out at that 210-230lb range (and not know why they cant get any bigger)

4)Ive seen people with incredible genetics build muscle on 200-250 grams of protein a day (nasser el sonbaty, flex wheeler, paul dillet and some other incredibly gifted pros --remember i said gifted PROS)

5)The people out there who have incredible genetics are so very few and far between its pathetic

6)Ive seen millions of people training for years eating squeaky clean nutrient dense low volume food diets with average genetics who never get bigger--ever

7)ive seen superheavy powerlifters who gain alot of bodyfat with muscle in the offseason, diet down and CRUSH everyone in their area in bodybuilding shows

Ive never seen a white elite bodybuilder with slightly above mediocre genetics get superhuge without boatloading protein in the 500 and upward gram range (jimmy mentis, I also put Greg Kovacs in here as he isnt even close to colemans or wheelers genetics, kamali, palumbo, mike francois etc)

9)Ive seen too many bodybuilders who are stuck at the same size and think the problem is their drugs, their training, everything else except their diet.

10) Nine out of ten times when i help someone who is stuck as a bodybuilder--getting their protein grams up to 500 from the 280 or so they were eating sends them into muscle accumalation overdrive.

11) Very rarely have I seen a person who could stay incredibly shredded in the offseason and gain bigtime muscle at the same time (and again the only ones Ive seen do it are black guys)

12)ive seen alot of natural guys who eat incredibly clean all year long put on 1-2LBS of muscle a year (great in 5 years they will be 5-10lbs heavier)

13)Thinking off the top of my head I cannot think of a over 250lb bodybuilder onstage who eats less than 400 grams of protein except nasser el sonbaty (who by the way hasnt gotten any larger for about 5 years) and Dillett

14)How many millions of bodybuilders with average genetics are using the same drugs, training the same way as each other and eating 200 grams of protein a day--alot!!! How many of those guys have 4lbs of muscle per inch of height?

15) Some years ago a study was done on sumo wrestlers, elite bodybuilders, and a untrained group of people trying to determine the upper limit of lean body mass in a human being. The sumo's while having the greatest bodyfat percentage also had the greatest lean body mass above the elite bodybuilders and way above the untrained. Why? Sumo's for the most part dont weight train but eat excess amounts of rice and fish...shouldnt they have less LBM than the elite bodybuilders? How are they developing that kind of muscle mass if they are not weight training to get it? Obviously some kind of adaption is taking place with the excess food intake allowing for great amounts of muscle mass. What would happen if they took the precautions to keep their bodyfat in check with cardio day and night?

I personally am an overkill guy---I would much rather maybe take in too much protein and excrete the excess than worry about taking in inadequate amounts of protein and losing out on muscle mass I would of gained and wasting these workouts (that Im killing myself with)---I'd rather use cardio and low/trace carbs after 6pm to keep my bodyfat levels in check than be safe and take in 2500 calories and worry about half filled glycogen stores or worse yet catabolism of muscle. My mindset is to turn someone into a machine--heavy weights, high protein, filled glycogen stores, use the treadmill to solve the excess--it sure as hell isnt easy but its the fastest way Ive found to get someone from point A to point B. And woody if you think a 6 foot 170lb man with average genetics can turn himself into a 6 foot 300lb superheavyweight bodybuilder on 2500 calories a day, and 200 grams of protein a day your sadly misinformed. You can look at world class powerlifters in the lower (under 200lb)classes. They are lifting shit heavy, many are using boatloads of drugs, why the hell arent they getting dramatically bigger if thats all thats needed? Food thats why. Now you put a superheavy 360lb powerlifter on the treadmill 6 times a week for 45-60 minutes a day and low trace carbs after 6pm and Ill show you a massive bodybuilder in about 3 months.


:I disagree strongly on that. No matter what the method someone uses to gain super strength gains-its imperiative they do so. If you put someone out on a deserted island with 135lbs of weights he can superset, giant set, high rep, superslow etc etc squats, deadlifts and benches to his hearts delight...the sad story is his gains will quickly come to a halt because his limiting factor is amount of strength he will gain. He has 135lbs to work with. You take that same guy on a deserted island and give him squats deadlifts, and benches and an unlimited weight supply that he constantly pushes-- In 5 years i'll show you a big Gilligan.
I think the biggest fallacy in bodybuilding is "changing up" "keeping the body off balance"--you can keep the body off balance by always using techniques or methods that give your body a reason to get bigger=strength. If you dont write down your weights and every time you come into the gym you go by feel and do a different workout (like 98% of the gym members who never change do now) what has that done? Lets say Mr gym member does 235 for 9 on the bench press this week, "tries to keep his body guessing" by doing 80lbs for 13 on flyes next week, 205 for 11 on inclines the week after, 245 on hammer press for 12 the week after that --and so on---there is only a limited number of exercises you can do. Two months later when he does bench presses again and does 235 for 8 or 9 has he gained anything--absolutely not. Four months later he does hammer presses for 245 for 11 (again) do you think he has given his body any reason to change?
Take 2 twins and have one do a max squat for 20 reps and the other twin giant set 4 leg exercises with the same weight. All year long have the first twin blast away until he brings his squat for 20 reps from 150 to 400lbs. Have the second twin giant set four exercises every workout with the same weight he used in his first workout all year long. Believe me he is going to be sore and he will be shocking the body every time but he will not gain shit after about the third leg workout. Because the load didnt change. There is no reason for his legs to grow in size due to the strength demand presented. The first twin who can now squat 400 for 20 is going to have some wheels. I use rest pause because in my opinion it is the utmost method to rapidly gain strength. Others might like a different method--thats up to them, doesnt matter as long as they are rapidly gaining strength. I try to bring someone through the shortest but intense workout they can to produce rapid strength increases--use glutamine, extreme stretching and 3 days for recovery, and then try to make them grow again. If your gaining appreciable strength on an exercise with a certain method I think the ABSOLUTELY WORSE THING YOU CAN DO is to change up right then. Take that exercise and method to its strength limit and then when you get there then change to a different exercise (and maybe method) and get strong as f#cking hell on that one too.


This is how I show someone the intensity they should be putting into every exercise and it really opens some eyes up quickly in the people I train. Either next quad workout or next time you dont feel like doing your normal leg workout, be true to yourself and take the number of plates you load up on the leg press for a hardcore 10 reps deep ---cut it exactly in half and do one set of 50 reps deep. So if your bragging to everyone that you can do 12 plates on each side for 10 then guess what your going to be doing - 6 a side for 50. And you know what-- everyone reading this can do the 50 reps, it just comes down to who has the most balls or not. You cannot lock your knees the whole set and you cannot rest your hands on your knees either. I try to get 25 first and then pause at the top (with knees slightly bent) and take 5 deep breaths and then get 10 more (5 deep breaths) and 5 more.(im at 40 now)..then the last 10 reps is pure tortuous hell...i usually do 3 reps (take 3 breaths)3 more reps, 3 more breaths, then 2 reps (3 deep breaths) and finally the last 2 reps=50 reps. Your legs will be absolutely destroyed and you better start stretching or walking the next day is going to be an adventure. My best ever was about 3 years ago I got 7 plates a side for 50 and i go deep (knees to armpits deep). The people that I have seen who cannot make it to 50 are people who dont have the mental fortitude to take pain and get pissed off or someone who starts to cramp. But youll learn alot from that one set, you will learn the intensity it takes to approach every set on every other bodypart and exercise you do.


: honestly I have no idea, I am continually into "accumalation of muscle" mode and I think if you start counting fat grams and carb grams in a size building program you'll drive yourself nuts. Personally I eat like the following every meal.....65 to 110 grams of protein down the hatch is imperiative, then I satisfy any other hunger needs with complex carbs......the fats I take in (besides whats in red meat and eggs etc) are flaxseed and extra virgin olive oils. After 6-7pm I lower my carbs dramatically and only take in protein and (low carb vegetables). I dont get fat this way. If I come to a sticking point with my bodyweight I start with one tablespoon of olive oil in my protein drinks and make my way up to 3 or 4 tablespoons over a weeks time. I dont include olive oil in my nightime protein drink though. As long as I get in 450 to 600 grams of protein in a day things keep moving upward. Ive never gained muscle easily (ever)-its a continual meticulous process for me.....thru trial and error Ive found simple things like 550 grams of protein and olive oil to get my calories up (when the eating gets tough) has been the key. I am ectomorphic and my mother was painfully skinny and I seem to be built on her lines---I know my body would love to weigh 168 to 175lbs normally without ever training--I've really had to put my time in at the dinner table for the past decade (plus) and it gets seriously annoying sometimes....but I do believe that the plate in front of you 6 times a day is what makes the difference between 97% of the 185-225lb bodybuilders out there and the 3% of the 260 to 310lb bodybuilders out there.

1)protein drink(olive oil 600/milk 210/water 0/powder 260/flaxseed 50+ oatmeal 200+ banana 102=1420cals

2) post workout drink=3 cups cranberry juice 390, four scoops protein powder 520, 2 baked potatoes 284=1194cals

3)chicken rice casserole-cup of rice 190 chicken 581, sauce 150 , two cups milk 280=1201 cals

4)T bone steak 1419, water with lemon (trace), mashed potatoes (400)=1819cals

5) protein drink with olive oil 600/powder 260/milk 210/ water 0 and protein bar 290 = 1360

6)two cups 2% milk 280 and 2 cups cottage cheese 440=720 so my total came out at 7714 calories for yesterdays eating.






I wrote a long damn answer to this yesterday--took me like 45 minutes and the whole thing reset and I lost it all. Probaly not going to go into detail like I did yesterday but here goes....I buy in bulk period. I buy eggs (5 dozen), ground beef(10lb chubs), rice etc in bulk and save a grip of money. I also always buy according to unit price which seems simple but most people overlook it. I scour flyers for steak deals and go to the supermarket that is selling London Broils for 1.87 a LB and snatch up a slew of them. I am a stingy frugal shopper--my biggest expense is protein powder (I use the 4.4 Pro complex). At lunchtime at work every day I go out to eat (otherwise I go nuts eating homemade food all the time). I am "COUPON BOY"---I get tons of restraurant coupons in the mail and use them religiously. Dennys, IHOP, Aculpulco etc you name it...most of these coupons are 10 bucks off or one meal free if a meal of greater or equal value is bought. My buddy and I split the bill and I end up getting a free meal every other day. Ill go to Dennys and order the T-bone steak or chicken breast with rice no problem. I eat pretty much the same things every day (as in the post above) except at lunchtime where Ill mix it up. I am paying less for food than alot of people eating 3 times a day who dont lift (outside of protein powder). I have tried hard to get sponsored this year by a protein powder manufacturer to negate some of those costs.....Metrx added me to Team Metrx which allows me to incredible discounts on their stuff but comes out to the cost of my intake of Pro Complex(which I love and stay with). Optimum Nutrition's sponsorships are tapped and ISS research were/are considering....we shall see what happens.

every workout I destroy or beat my previous. Every single time. My brutal life or death war is with that training notepad and I am fucking determined to be the winner. That piece of paper will not own my ass--no way in hell. I am adding 5-10lbs (at least) every time that exercise comes up again (for the same rep range). On large exercises involving back and legs sometimes its 20lb jumps. On a positive note I rotate 3 exercises per bodypart so I have about 10-11 days between repeating that same exercise which really allows me not to get burned out on it quickly. Only when I feel my rep range went a little too low last time that exercise was done do i think about staying with the same weight. I say "think about it" because I cant stand using the same weight and I virtually always end up throwing a 2.5lb on each side anyways just for my conscience. I can go a whole year beating last weeks performance (and I have the training log to prove it)..Sometimes like on a bicep exercise I can get to my strength limit in 6 weeks though.....My girlfriend hates being around me right before the gym--I pace around, have anxiety and I am very irritable. Why? Because I get nervous knowing I have to beat that damn notepad. Its like anticipating a fight with someone and its nervewracking---but I do not let myself lose. I know this much from training so long--if I only equal last weeks weight and reps I've wasted time and haven't gotten any bigger. If I continually destroy that notepad's previous records I continually get larger over time.
Sadly there does come a time down the road where the poundage-jumps slow down on an exercise and I start fighting for a rep here and there to beat last week. When i go about 3 workouts with an exercise like that where a exercise finally beats me, I change the exercise and its time to destroy the new one I pick. I can relish in the fact that 98% of the time I am the winner though.


like people to do this at their meals
1)pound down the protein amount they must get in first for that meal
2)add flax or olive oil to that meal if it allows it..i.e. protein drinks etc (and its before 6pm)
3) finally eat carbohydrates to satisfy any other hunger pangs at that meal and dont worry about grams! If you cut your carbs off at 6pm the nite before you can pound raisin bran at breakfast and pasta at lunch etc etc your not going to have to worry about it (your going low carb after 6pm again tonite) Offseason you shouldnt feel like your abstaining or dieting--hell if you want 25 chocalate chip cookies--pound them down at 2pm (after you downed your protein drink first)

After 6pm worry about carb grams--keep them low to trace--just delete potatoes, pasta, bread, cereals after 6pm and boatload all the corn, peas, or vegetables you want with your (after 6pm) protein sources.

I dont know about you guys but I can put away the food (hell my name is up on a plaque at a restraurant 16 times out of 23 people for wolfing down this meal called "THE HE-MAN SPECIAL") but with 550 grams of protein coming in I still have trouble getting enough carbs in sometimes-I have to almost force feed myself ---Im just not that hungry by the time I down that huge steak to suck down huge amounts of pasta (especially at 6 meals a day pace)----My opinion is use carbs only to satisfy the rest of your hunger before 6pm and the veggies to satisfy hunger after 6pm and dont worry about counting carb grams.


Post workout regardless of time of day--
for me its 75-110grams of protein in a protein drink consisting of 3 cups of cranberry grape (or dextrose or any kind of similiar concoction you want to come up with)--glutamine, creatine and some kind of complex carbs (I eat 2-3 potatoes) but you could do a double serving of oatmeal, some rice, dry pasta etc etc).......................
thats post workout for people who train at morning or night. There probaly is 2 more meals after that one for most people who train after work at nite. See alot of this depends on 'that person' and what time they workout and how many meals they are eating after their workout. The absolute last meal of the day is definitely no/minimal carb-minimal fat and high protein-no exceptions to that rule. Theres not a quicker way of piling on bodyfat than high carbing or high fatting it right before bed no doubt (the variance being on glycogen stores). Up to now I have been generalizing for the masses because alot of you are worried about bodyfat but the second to last meal of the day for you guys who train at night is going to depend on who YOU are. If you have a tendency to gain fat easy then I would go high protein low carb and low fat at that second to last meal. If you have trouble gaining weight or if you feel flat glycogen wise i would have high protein, mod to low fat and mod to low carb that second to last meal. I cant write something in stone for 100 people who have different bodytypes. The general rule of thumb would be (disregarding post workout meal) high protein low carb low fat at nite. A high school kid trying to desperately gain weight could moderately carb it up and take in olive oil at that second to last meal (after he gets his protein in). An endomorph who is 40 years old and trying to put on as much muscle mass as possible will still not be able to do that. You guys have to take a look at yourselves and think that one out. The average guy could do the post workout meal (5pm or so) then have a big steak with a boatload of veggies and a little dry pasta or small amount of potatoes if he wanted at 7pm and then have a protein drink and some roast beef cold cuts before bed at 1030 or so and he would be right on the money (but we are not all average guys in here are we?)

i totally agree with that instynct but I try to develop a plan of progression pushing toward the future bodybuilding efforts. I kind of look at things not so much as "this time in the present" but how can I make myself continually better in the longrun. For me supersets will work but in the long run how can you progress on them? --(by increasing the loads would be one way)--the only problem I find in them is you end up pissing people off in the gym who see an empty machine or barbell lying there and you yell "hey im using that" while your doing the other part of the superset.
Slow mo reps again--can you use them in an efficient way that will be long term progression? I dont think my way is the only way at all. I just personally like to use rest pausing and progressively heavier weights for myself and the people i train. Whatever method you or BBBD or anyone for that matter --on this board use that allows you to be better next year than you are this year--will work in my opinion. I tend to train at gyms for 2-4 years and then change gyms and in that time i do alot of observing. And I see the same guys at the exact same size year after year benching (and lifting) the same weights over and over without fighting for those 2.5 to 10lb plates every week. Its like they are programmed to always lift 225 or always lift 315 in the bench. What the hell happened to trying to get 320 and 325 etc etc? If i stayed the same year after year like some of the people I see in gyms slaving away I would quit...I would see no reason to do something I cannot improve upon. I think alot of you guys have the same mentality as I have and that is--if I do something I have to be the best I can personally be at it--I cant go half ass with it. It amazes me to see people train hard and then not eat. Or train with the same weights year round.




as im late for work--I cant make this post long but let me leave everyone with food for thought. There are roughly 400 pro bodybuilders in this world. Most with elite genetics for muscle building. Think it out and of those pro bodybuilders who are the most massive of the bunch? Did Dorian have the best genetics? I dont think so. I would give that to Flex Wheeler and Paul Dillett. But Dorian used backbreaking weights to make himself king of the hill. Just like Coleman has done, and Bertil Fox did. Mike Francois. Lee Priest. Shawn Ray has incredible genetics yet always stays in a comfort zone of weights and is one of the smaller bodybuilders onstage. So with genetics on the pro stage being just about equal across the board (with some variance)if strength meant nothing--you wouldnt have guys like Coleman and Yates and Haney etc winning Olympias. You would have incredible genetically gifted pros who did 75% intensity training with comfortable weights. Kovacs will not win a pro show because of his structure, but if you think Greg Kovacs would be even close to as massive as he is if he got satisfied doing 225lb benches and 350lb squats--there is no way in hell. So i stick to my opinion for anyone on this board: The day you reach your ultimate strength potential is the day you will be the most massive your genetics will allow. And if you dont believe that--stick with the weights you are currently using for the next 10 years and come back and please let me know how much larger you have become.



breakfast: oatmeal(5) with soy grits and ground flaxseeds on top (23) a little bit of milk(2) in the oatmeal and a protein drink (55)=85grams

afterworkout snack-two potatoes(7) and a double serving protein drink in cranberry grape juice (110) =117grams

lunch (quick one cuz of my work)-can of ravioli (11) and protein drink(65) (cup of water cup of milk in there) =76grams

snack--two 99cent bigmacs(54) and 2 cups of milk (20)=74 grams (hey I could lie and say a turkey on wheat but im being truthfull here)

dinner -1lb of hamburger (100) cooked drained and then washed off with water thoroughly (to remove as much fat as possible)with condiments and noodles (4) =104grams

I keep reasonably lean by taking in zero to trace amounts of carbs (found in vegetables) after 6-7pm

nitetime meal-six eggwhite omelet with peppers or peas(20) or roast beef cold cuts with half water-half milk protein drink (65) =85 grams

Thats 541 protein grams on average and with me usually eating larger portions than measured I probaly venture toward 600 grams alot. If you look at the food I eat its pretty cheap, specially the way I buy it in bulk.



honestly I have no idea, I am continually into "accumalation of muscle" mode and I think if you start counting fat grams and carb grams in a size building program you'll drive yourself nuts. Personally I eat like the following every meal.....65 to 110 grams of protein down the hatch is imperiative, then I satisfy any other hunger needs with complex carbs......the fats I take in (besides whats in red meat and eggs etc) are flaxseed and extra virgin olive oils. After 6-7pm I lower my carbs dramatically and only take in protein and (low carb vegetables). I dont get fat this way. If I come to a sticking point with my bodyweight I start with one tablespoon of olive oil in my protein drinks and make my way up to 3 or 4 tablespoons over a weeks time. I dont include olive oil in my nightime protein drink though. As long as I get in 450 to 600 grams of protein in a day things keep moving upward. Ive never gained muscle easily (ever)-its a continual meticulous process for me.....thru trial and error Ive found simple things like 550 grams of protein and olive oil to get my calories up (when the eating gets tough) has been the key. I am ectomorphic and my mother was painfully skinny and I seem to be built on her lines---I know my body would love to weigh 168 to 175lbs normally without ever training--I've really had to put my time in at the dinner table for the past decade (plus) and it gets seriously annoying sometimes....but I do believe that the plate in front of you 6 times a day is what makes the difference between 97% of the 185-225lb bodybuilders out there and the 3% of the 260 to 310lb bodybuilders out there.


Copa was a tough one for me training wise at first. He is somewhat endomorphic as stated yet his goal was to make an impact as a lightheavy. At 5'7" 205 offseason that would of made him a middle of the class middleweight. So the dilemna was do I take him down to 185-190lbs or so and then try to bring him up at 8-12 percent bodyfat with alot of treadmill work? Or should we go into muscle accumalation fast track mode and get him up to the top of the lightheavies as quickly as possible? I asked him this and he said "lets get this freight train rolling"--so we are trying to keep his bodyfat the exact same and get him up to 240lbs as quick as humanly possible. And then we will decide to maybe make the jump to 250-260lbs or lean him out a little bit and bring him up with some more treadmill work. That would make him a (actually 5'6" 3/4) 195-198lb lightheavy who will do some major damage. Copa has a set of wheels on him that arent going to make any other competitors want to trade leg shots with him any time soon. I dont think he realizes how good he is going to be in a show which is a trait of humbleness I like to see in bodybuilding. Like Coastal and kjigga this guy can put the food down the hatch. Guys like that make my job easy--I just jump start the car and get it moving and they keep pouring gas in the tank. The only problem i forsee with Copa is keeping him in the lightheavies as we might end up having to lose 10lbs of muscle (if he tops out at 255-260) to make those 198's.

This stuff is fun as hell for me--I love shocking the hell out of these guys who pay me to train them. I know at the beginning they are thinking "well ive been stuck here for awhile what possibly could this guy do to change me"---that right there is absolutely the funnest part of it for me.



I have the originals to the pics cris sent above. For some reason he looks a little smoother above than in the originals, maybe he saved them as jpegs instead of BMP and lost some of the detail. I have also seen cris's pics at 254lbs when he started with me 8 weeks ago and now he is 25 or so LBS larger and leaner than he was at 254 (by my eye).
Onswole I have some radically different opinions on the best way to put on lean muscle mass at the absolutely fastest rate possible. Out of the seven bodybuilders I have trained in person the last few years every one of them has gained at least 54lbs at a leaner bodyfat in less than 2.5 years time. I dont want to be known as a precontest trainer--that bores me honestly. Shedding bodyfat takes 4 months. Getting 4lbs of muscle per inch of height takes people years (or never)! The "main problem" in bodybuilding isnt that people cant get shredded..(although that is a difficult task in itself) Its that most people dont have enough muscle mass to make a dramatic showing. I have been doing online training since August and have trained or am presently training 8 people during that time. My first client went from 184lbs to 214lbs (at his last weighing) in 4 months. His bodyfat was tested at 7.7% at the beginning and then at 208lbs it was tested again at 7.6%. My present clients are pretty much doing the exact same thing. Im not making people fat, Im putting muscle on them at the fastest rate possible. Cris makes my job easy, he has very good genetics but i felt his diet and training werent the most productive to gain at optimal levels. All Im doing is putting him into a fasttrack method of gaining muscle. My methods involve making huge jumps in muscle mass in 4-7 weeks and then cruising for 2-3 weeks and then jumping up in muscle mass again for 4-7 weeks etc etc. Whenever i take on a new trainee--they usually make that big 12-25lb gain in the first gaining phase and then we try to blast up 10lbs of muscle mass in each gaining phase after that. As with everything these eventually turn into 5LB jumps as someone gets more advanced. Regardless this puts them at a rate where they are gaining 30-60lbs the first year. I have chris and most people I train on low to trace carbs after 6pm so his glycogen stores are slowly depleted and any excess isnt being stored as bodyfat. He then fat loads or carb loads(always with high protein) at the first 3-4 meals of the next day.
In another 45 days cris will be 10lbs larger and either at the same offseason bodyfat or slightly less bodyfat. And when cris gets to 300lbs (probaly somewhere between April and June) he will be at the same bodyfat you see or a little bit leaner. As this is chads board and this is starting to sound like an advertisement for my methods (which I dont want) --I'll stop there. Ive written some articles for AE and put alot of my theories up at Animals board if you want to look at them




That is true but I believe certain exercises put you in a better mechanical positions---otherwise people would be building gigantic triceps from kickbacks and one arm reverse extension movements which doesnt happen much compared to reverse grip benches which most people get good results from. So I think its very important to find key exercises that work for you and rotate them. Lets look at back thickness....someone could do heavy pulley rows for thickness but what really is that doing toward great results for the traps or erectors? Hence Deadlifts and another thickness exercise such as rack deads, bent over rows, or t bar rows should probaly be used and rotated too. Only a study would show for sure but in my mind someone is going to build far better triceps rotating close grip benches, reverse grip benches, and lying ez bar extensions than coming in and doing a rest pause set of tricep pushdowns every tricep workout. Again key exercises/different mechanical positions but (yes the whole tricep contracts in every movement)--the whole quad contracts on leg extensions as it does in a squat but there is no doubt that a deep squatting movement is key in building large quads-------------besides that I think the main problem is that the workout you describe would be so unbelievably boring with zero variety that you would burn out on it mentally in a short amount of time.


calves--I believe I have found a key in calf development that will get anyones calves past that sticking point no matter how crappy their calves are. Its also about as fun and comfortable as getting your tonsils pulled-lol --my three favorite exercise to rotate are
1) leg press calf press
2) seated calf raise
3) hip sled or hack squat calf press
The method is one straight set (after warmups) with 12 reps being the goal. Its up on the toes and then a counted 5 seconds down to the very bottom and then 15 counted seconds at the very bottom stretch and back up again. I believe it is that very stretch that is making the peoples calves I train respond so well. The first couple you think "ahh this will be cake"--at about the 6th rep it becomes "goddammit this is pain"---at 9 reps people are now looking at you shaking and you think one of two things to yourself "ok this is too much pain and IM a pussy" and stop there or you decide "I am the most hardcore motherfucker in this gym" and you somehow will yourself thru 10, 11 and the 12th rep (which you must finish on the negative)
All I ask is that if your calves havent budged in a while, for the next 3-6 months try this and keep adding progressively heavier and heavier weights if you make it to that 10th or 11th rep---and then come into this forum and let me know if this did jack crap for you or dramatically changed your calves.

One more thing I wanted to reiterate to people is -I believe the lowest gain of any guy Ive trained online has been 14lbs in 2 months with 32lbs or so being the top, so lets say for reference sake that 18-25lbs is the average. In that 2 months time people are only doing 24 workouts. That is it. Eight weeks times 3 times a week=24. So for laymans sake we are getting around an average of 1 LB per workout. Thats not a pure lb of muscle per workout with glycogen, water, and (hopefully not) bodyfat and other factors taken into consideration. But I wanted to show people how important every workout and every meal is and why I constantly drill into peoples heads "Do not miss meals!"



no there are going to be trace to some carbs in many foods. Without going into great detail, in my plan you want to limit starchy or complex carbs--potatoes, rice, pasta, cereal, etc etc after your predetermined cutoff. That cutoff has to be determined by you guys. Some of you might go to bed every nite at 2am and get up at 11am while some might go to bed at 10pm and get up at 5am. The endomorph guys usually have to cut off the carbs a little earlier than everyone else. When I say cut off carbs I say it in a very lenient sense. I know there are carbs in milk, vegetables etc etc but a general rule is this :: lets say you go to bed at 1130pm every nite--I would make the cutoff probaly 6pm or 630pm or so. Before that time everything goes and if you get at least 60plus grams of protein in at every meal Im happy with that and you can eat carbs to your hearts desire. Well first I should state that at every meal I want the protein amount your supposed to eat taken in first, and then vegetables and lastly complex carbs. Believe me you pound down a 16 ounce steak with two helpings of peas you arent too hungry for a loaded up baked potato afterwards. So with that said--after your cutoff mark your pretty much eating high protein and vegetables etc and leaving out the complex carbs. A sample 630pm meal for me is a 16ounce prime rib with a huge Ceaser salad with some green beans on the side and about 2 small bites of the huge sweet potato that comes with the meal(because IM full at that point)--630pm is my lunch at work and I usually go to restaurants where they give me good deals-(coupons, freinds etc)-so Im the prime rib king--LOL
My next meal after that is about 900pm and is usually a protein drink in milk and half a zero carb protein bar or some cold cuts (something to that effect)
My last meal after cutoff is 1130pm and is usually roast beef cold cuts and 2 cups of milk or a protein drink and a chicken breast or egg white omelet with milk--something along the high protein-lower carb genre.
Of course if you train at nite (which I dont) you would plug in the post workout meal directly after that workout. For the guys I train that is 80-100 grams of protein in 75 grams dextrose or 3 cups of juice (I like the vanilla protein and grapefruit juice combo myself as im gagging on everything else now) --along with that is a multi vitamin, 7.5 to 10 grams of creatine and an insulin protocol if that is used. Glutamine is usually in most of the protein powders I buy but if it isnt someone would also take that in post workout too. I hope that kind of clears some things up for you.
I need to say the following because I think some are getting confused about my training philosophy. And this is my fault because I stated how I train personally(I know my recovery levels pretty well). Whenever I train someone new I have them do the following --4 times training in 8 days---with straight sets. Sometimes with rest pause sets but we have to guage the recovery ability first.

Day one would be Monday and would be
Chest
shoulders
triceps
back width
back thickness

Day two would be wenesday and would be
biceps
forearms
calves
hams
quads

Day three would be friday and would be
chest
shoulders
triceps
back width
back thickness

(sat+sun off)

Day four would be the following monday and would be
biceps
forearms
calves
hams
quads

and so on wenesday friday monday wenesday etc.

Your hitting every bodypart twice in 8 days. The volume on everything is simply as many warmup sets as you need to do- to be ready for your ONE work set. That can be two warmup sets for a small muscle group or five warmup sets for a large muscle group on heavy exercise like rack deadlifts. The ONE work set is either a straight set or a rest pause set(depending on your recovery abilities again). For people on the lowest scale of recovery its just that one straight set---next up is a straight set with statics for people with slightly better than that recovery----next up is rest pausing (on many of the of movements) with statics for people with middle of the road recovery on up.

Three key exercises are picked for each bodypart (hypothetically we will use flat dumbell bench press, incline smythe bench press, and hammer press)---USING ONLY ONE OF THOSE EXERCISES PER WORKOUT you rotate these in order and take that exercise to it's ultimate strength limit (where at that point you change the exercise and get brutally strong on that new movement too). That can happen in 4 weeks or that can happen 2 years later but it will happen some time (You cannot continually gain strength to where you eventually bench pressing 905 for reps obviously)---Sometime later when you come back to that original exercise you will start slightly lower than your previous high and then soar past it without fail---
As you progress as a bodybuilder you need to take even more rest time and recovery time. READ THAT AGAIN PLEASE AS YOU PROGRESS AS A BODYBUILDER IN SIZE AND STRENGTH YOU NEED TO TAKE EVEN MORE REST AND RECOVERY TIME. EXAMPLE: My recovery ability is probaly slightly better now than when i started lifting 13-14 years ago but only slightly...but back then I was benching 135lbs and squatting 155lbs in my first months of lifting. Now I am far and away the strongest person in my gym using poundages three to six times greater than when I first started lifting. With my recovery ability being what it is both then and now do you think I need more time to recover from a 155lb squat for 8reps or a 500lb squat for 8reps? Obviously the answer is NOW! This past year I have been really pounding the slag iron as heavy and hard as I can in preparation of trying to get onstage at about 252lbs early next year. That means a hard 300lbs to me offseason and im pretty damn close to that right now. The gains I have made in strength this past year even at my lifting level are nothing short of phenomenal (in my mind). With those strength gains comes the ratio of recovery factor. Whereas a year ago i was training 2 on one off 2 on one off and getting away with it with extreme stretching etc....about 2 months ago i took an extra day off on the weekend because of work obligations and I just started to feel somewhat tired because of how heavy my weights were. If my strength keeps progressing at this level I am eventually going to have to train Monday Wenesday Friday Monday Wenesday Friday like outlined above simply because I am reaching poundages that are so far and away above my beginning weights-I have to take the neccesary recovery precautions. I am still training as often as I possibly can per bodypart--thats key to me. The more times I can train a bodypart in a years time and recover will


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer...
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 11:06
Fortsettelse:


my lead that would mean starting out with straight sets training 4 times in 8 days and strictly guaging yourself recovery wise with every step up you take (statics, rest pauses)--i hope this clears some things up



Notpuff for the next few months take note of people who you see in the gym that never change. They will be the ones using the same weight every time on exercises every time they go in the gym. These are the people who go 135, 185, 225 on the bench every time its chest day. Your best freinds in the gym are the 2.5lb plates--your very best buds!!! You put those 2.5lb plates on that bar every time you bench press for 52 weeks and now your bench is 250lbs more at the end of the year! That would in my mind be another inch to inch + half thickness on your chest. Can it be done? probaly not at that rate but TRYING TO DO IT will get you alot bigger than doing what 98% of the people in the gym do. Unless you are gifted genetically to build muscle at a dizzying rate (most people arent) the largest people in your gym will also be the ones heaving up the heaviest weights. Do you think they started out that way? No they were probaly 175lb guys who bulldozed their way up to that level. A perfect example are male strippers. (No offence Dancer) These guys use a boatload of drugs on par with hardcore competitive bodybuilders. After an initial phase where they grow off of steroids like everyone else--their growth stops (like forever)---Why? because they arent eating 500 grams of protein a day and dont fight and claw their way to 500lb bench presses and 700lb squats and deadlifts. They stay on the drugs for years and years while stripping but dont go beyond that 200 to 220lb range. So much for juice being the total equalizer. I dont know why everyone makes this such an elite science when in actuality its pretty cut and dry. If you keep a training log and note your weights used for the next 5 years and find they are still the same you will pretty much look "still the same" in 5 years. If you double all your poundages in the next five years in everything, your going to be a thick motherfucker.....If someone ever took a ratio of people who dont make gains to people who do, it would be pitiful. I would venture to say that 95% of people in gyms across this country arent gaining muscle and are wasting their time. The best advice I could ever give a guy starting out lifting is "go train with an established powerlifter" ----Fact: Dorian Yates and Flex Wheeler used drugs (Flex (straight from the persons mouth who gave him shots for a very long time)used some of the most abusive amounts I have ever heard of) Do you think Dorian Yates had the genetic gifts that Flex Wheeler had? Not a chance yet Yates willed himself with brutal slag iron to be utterly massive....On the other hand flex does his 3 sets of 10 reps with 185lbs and goes home. Yates hit 318 in the offseason and 270lbs at his contest peak. Wheeler I believe topped out at 265 offseason and 238 or so contest. Wheeler had the better physique yet Yates won by being so overpowering. Think it out.
Oh by the way take a look at the Yates who is a lowland mountain gorilla--this is ridiculous. I believe he was 297lbs here at a guest posing.


everybody out there gains 90LBs? if that was true noone in this world would be unhappy with their gains. Every 175 kid in the gym would be 265lbs in 18 months...cmon skylor we know thats not happening. If anyone in this forum thinks they will get massive--squatting 200lbs and benching 185lbs you really need to choose another activity. THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE GREATEST STRENGTH GAINS OVER TIME WILL MAKE THE GREATEST SIZE GAINS OVER TIME ACCORDING TO THEIR GENETIC POTENTIAL. If skylor and notpuff never get anywhere close to their ultimate strength levels(AT WHATEVER REP RANGE) they will never get to their utmost level of potential size.
Dorian took off major time after he stopped competing and lost alot of the weight he had on him. He is 235-245lbs now and happy at that weight-- after training for a while. What does he have left to prove? The man doesnt have to walk around at 280lbs to garner respect....the guy ruled the roost for almost a decade. More power to him that he doesnt feel the peer pressure to be "inhumanly massive"
I saw another guy in this thread talk about doing one warmup and then an all out set and complained of injuries. WHY THE HELL ARE YOU COUNTING WARMUPS? If it takes you 6 sets to warm up or if it takes only two it doesnt matter--ITS A WARMUP!!! Its only to get you ready for your main one or two sets on an exercise. Do as many warmups as it takes you to feel ready....Dont live or die by warmup sets---they dont count!!! If I went in and did one warmup on rack deadlifts at 135x6 and then went right for 650 for 10 for my main set Im asking for a slew of injuries! Notpuff the only thing I keep hearing you say to people is "you must have good genetics" ---well if you have bad genetics isnt that more of a reason to maybe take some of this info in?! I dont see any pros on this board....many of these guys dont have superior genetics for building muscle fast. I know for sure I dont have genetics ala coleman or cutler. But I know this--if i stuck around doing supersets and volume training with poundages 250lbs and lower for the last 8 or so years, Id be nowhere close to what I am now. WHY THE HELL IS FLEX WHEELER--THE BODYBUILDER WITH THE GREATEST GENETICS ON THIS PLANET a small pro? Ill tell you why--his training is laughable. Do you think Ed Coan has incredible genetics for muscle building? No he probaly has middle of the road genetics. But if you think Ed Coan would be anywhere as large muscularly as he is right now by doing volume training and the typical 225 benches, 250 squats and 225 deadlifts your fooling yourself. Do not confuse a strong guy who is small with someone who makes himself brutally stronger over time. IT IS STRENGTH GAINS over time that is the key----its not "oh Stickboy over there can bench 315 and he looks like crap"---well Stickboy was granted god given strength...thats just great....so what? Now if Stickboy works his ass off, and eats correctly and brings that 315 bench up to a 550lb bench then you will see some major muscle gains (up to the point his genetics allow). Im not a HIT or periodization or any voodoo disciple--I follow my own methods and plans as I am sure instynct and Iron Addict do. But the baseline for all of our methods seem to be the same thing---"what can we do to become the strongest individuals that our genes will allow?"----I havent come across an individual yet that was determined, listened to me 100% and did not miss meals who I could not turn into a person who hears "are you a bodybuilder" or "wow your big" in his travels. I think "complaining about genetics" is sometimes a cop out for people who dont really have what it takes to get to that "full bore" level of intensity that inches you up the muscle ladder.


isolation and high rep exercises? Ever see his video? 805 deadlifts for 2 reps, 765 for 6 reps deads, front squats with 600lbs for 6, 200lb dumbells being thrown all over the place for chest, miliatary presses 315 for 12 and he has done a double with 405. Muscular Development should be embarrassed to print such idiocy. I believe Coleman was clean or close to it (Texas A+M could probaly say better than I could) when he was powerlifting and when he was an amateur bodybuilder. He won the Natural Universe and got his pro card at roughly 220-230lbs shredded to the bone and if that was natural or close to it---thats about 270lbs offseason and would be a huge natural bodybuilder. Since that time he has hooked up with Chad Nichols and blasted (with juice) up to his current 265lbs contest weight and 320lbs offseason. He trains heavier now than he ever did.... The man has used extremely heavy weights and powerlifting fundamentals to become the most massive bodybuilder walking this planet.

Skylor here is a question for you-----Who is the last incredibly massive bodybuilder you have seen (juice or not)who couldnt incline 405, squat 550, deadlift 550. I am talking freak-massive ala dorian, kovacs, francois, etc.....there are slew of guys in gyms using mega amounts of steroids on par with pros who are no where close to a pro's size.....some with sucky to mediocre genetics, yet some with superb genetics. But the pro's using weights that are up there in the stratosphere are by and large the most freakish. These are pros we are talking about, who all have superior genetics. Do you think Yates, Francois, Cormier etc all just had natural genetics for incredible strength, not ever having to work for it? Jean Paul Guilliame is the only clean professional bodybuilder I ever trusted is truly clean. The man is a smaller pro training without the juice yet trains incredibly heavy for his size--405lb squats rock bottom for up to 20 reps and his wheels are incredible.
Now if you got guys doing massive amounts of steroids in gyms around america---who are not putting on appreciable size because they train with light weights----- what in your right mind could make you think you will gain appreciable amounts of muscle mass as a natural training light?!?! One million people in the United States have admitted to using steroids--1 million!!! That is one out of every 300 people walking around. How many big people do you see out there? Not many. It sure isn't close to 1 million---- because 90% of those people have no clue in the world on what needs to be done.....


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 11:11
Sånn, mer enn dette blir vel vanskelig å finne frem tror jeg, da må man grave dyyyyyypt!

Edit:
Jeg er glad DC bor så langt unna norge som han gjør  ::biggrin::


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: UpAndComming13. juni 2005, 11:33
Bare husk at det finnes norske traineer..... >:D


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen13. juni 2005, 11:41
Hehe jeg tenkte litt på det ja, men pytt pytt! ;) Alt dette er å drive frem i gamle innlegg på et par norske forumer.

Det er nesten på tide at det blir et DC-underforum her på treningsforum og!


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: UpAndComming13. juni 2005, 11:42
Det er nesten på tide at det blir et DC-underforum her på treningsforum og!

Absolutt en spennende tanke ja. Har tenkt på det selv noen ganger. Kanskje på tide å ta opp i Crewet. :)


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: flisa13. juni 2005, 12:07
Bra jobbet!hehe
honnør for dette ja!


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: Big Boy13. juni 2005, 12:49
Går denne rett inn på HOF sånn at den er lett å finne igjen? ;)


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: UpAndComming13. juni 2005, 12:49
Flytter den i løpet av uka tenker jeg, om ikke noe annet er skjedd innen da. :)


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: tasha13. juni 2005, 13:18
noen med erfaringer ?
må eller bør det gjennomføres med rest paused?


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: UpAndComming13. juni 2005, 13:21
Hva mener du egentlig ?? ::huh2::

Har MASSE erfaring og har jobbet mye med dette ja. :) Er mange her inne som har trent DC.


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: tasha13. juni 2005, 13:45
hehe okey, har du en norsk versjon av det?


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: UpAndComming13. juni 2005, 13:48
http://www.treningsforum.no/forum/index.php?topic=12149.0


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: Egil Skallagrimsson13. juni 2005, 14:05
Honnør for jobben Stripie!
Det er mange som har prøvd DC, men det krever en god del lesing og egeninnsats med å forstå prinsippene. ;)
DoggCrap underforum hadde vært noe! :)


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: TheFonz13. juni 2005, 15:16
Er et hardt program, men anbefales :)


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: Lasse Christoffersen22. juni 2005, 12:49
Litt mer:

Random thoughts from Dante

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a)I have no problem with anyone on leg training switching the exercises they do from the 6-8 heavy set to the 20 reppers on as long as the 20 repper gets done. Alot of the super large guys I train (270-340lbers) have serious trouble breathingwise doing a 20 rep free squat. Hell I have trouble doing it myself. You are carrying alot of bodyweight, breathing like a locomotive and hey lets not die on leg training day-LOL. Ill give you an example--One of my guys does smythe squats, free squats and leg presses as his three leg movements. On leg press day he does the heavy 6-10 (I make him do 10 reps on it) and then does the 20 repper on the same leg press. On smythe day he does his heavy 6-8 and then does the 20 repper on a horizontal hack machine. On free squat day he does his heavy 6-10 and does the 20 repper on a Cybex (different) leg press machine at a slightly different angle than the other leg press day. I got no problem with any of you guys doing that especially you large beasts. Now if you start doing only leg presses with the same leg press machine for all your 20 reppers then Im going to call you on it that your taking the easy way out.

b)Alot of people ask me how I come to conclusions on things.....alot of all this you can deduct from what you see going on around you at gyms and from just watching people. Alot of what I do is "reverse engineering"--I think things out backwards to find out the reasoning. You can sit there and study medline all day long but until you have a practical brain to think how it pertains to bodybuilding, your not going to get very far in applying it. For example alot of people freak out about the controlled negative on reps in DC training and why the heck its done. Besides what science agrees with, think of certain instances or hobbies or jobs with repetitive movements with the repeated same load. Boat rowers, sawing lumberjacks and gymnasts. They all do repetitive movements with the same load, a boat or canoist rower is trying to power along a boat as fast as he can, a sawing lumberjack is using power to saw down a tree, a gymnast does repeated movements with bodyweight. All are pushing the limits trying to use as much power as possible for the task at hand. Which one of those three has a discernable musculature? Boat rowers dont have huge backs, sawing lumberjacks dont have huge arms but gymnasts always have that musculature. They sure arent eating to get huge and most likely they arent doing incredibly heavy weight training but you can always see the musculature on a gymnast. Why? Well which one of those three does controlled negative movements? The rowers and sawers are just using positive movements and it does virtually nothing for their musculature (science agrees with that theory-concluding that the positive movment is a strength/priming phase and the eccentric is where the magic happens)--the gymnasts on the other hand are all doing heavy eccentric and controlled negative work (iron cross/rings, pommel horse etc etc etc)--the moral of the story is your whole thinking in all this should get to the point where your curling a weight up just for the simple reason of controlling the descent downward so you can get bigger

c)There was a study some years back which included 3 groups--elite sumo wrestlers who did no weight training whatsoever, advanced bodybuilders and advanced powerlifters--about 20 in each group. Now there is a lot of variables here but they took the lean muscle mass of each group and divided it by their height in inches. Surprisingly the sumo wrestlers came out well ahead of the powerlifters (2nd) and the bodybuilders (very close 3rd). This is a group who did no weight training at all but engorged themselves with food trying to bring their bodyweight up to dramatic levels. How is a group that is doing no weight training having more muscle mass per inch of height than powerlifters and bodybuilders? For anyone that doubts food is the greatest anabolic in your arsenal, you better get up to speed and on the same page as what my trainees have found out. Gee now what would happen if you actually ate to get dramatically larger like a sumo, but actually weight trained like a powerbuilder (which is what we train like), and also did enough cardio/carb cuttoffs etc to keep bodyfat at bay while doing all this? Are you guys coming around to how I think yet....in how to become the biggest bodybuilder at the quickest rate but keeping leaness on that journey?

d)Something you guys might want to try for your forearm belly that has worked better for me than alot of other things is a (belly of the forearm) extreme stretch done exactly after biceps or wrist curls or whatever you are doing for forearms. Its as simple as this--once youve done biceps and forearms and have already stretched your biceps--or directly after your last rep of seated wrist curls...sitting on a seat with your forearms resting on your legs and the barbell in your palms face up...let your hands sag downward and let the barbell roll down the palm of your hand and hold onto it with your fingers until you feel that stretch and then the fun begins (30-90 seconds thats what your trying for)..dont let the topside of your hands hit your shin because that defeats the purpose....at about 30 seconds youll start shaking...45 seconds your head will be twitching from side to side because there is so much pain and it feels like your going to lose the barbell with your grip and if you make it to 60 YOU ARE THE MAN...but 90 seconds is the goal...(trust me you wont make it--its too fucking painful)....youll get to the point youll have to drop the barbell on the floor and take 30 seconds just to get your wits about you. Be very careful with this movement, I dont want you tweaking your wrists here so be cautious. For those who do this, take a long look at your forearms the very next day in the mirror, flex your forearm and I think youll be very surprised at how different/swollen it is. Thats all that needs to be done---let me know 3 months from now how different they look

e)Its about time I start showing you guys some new exercises from the DC arsenal--I got about 50 you guys have never seen but Ill throw this one at you for now. Maybe Ill just have you guys throw out a bodypart one of these days in a post and ill give you new exercises you can do for that bodypart (time willing)
Pulley row high pulls-awesome for lat width here guys--this is going to be a pain in my ass to explain but lets see if i can do it--god its so much easier showing someone these in person. First up--do you know that position that is at the bottom of a stiff leg deadlift if you do it very deep (some people dont)--remember that position because that is key here ok?
Ok-Your on a seated cable row with a close grip parallel handle--your legs are slightly bent--your aiming for the greatest amount of stretch possible at the very beginning of the pull ok so remember that you should be in that "position" above or close to it (I talked about earlier) thruout this whole movement. With your back rounded and you leaning forward (huge stretch) you pull the handle to right about 3 inches above the kneecaps, thats it. At no point do you stick your chest out and arch your back and pull the handle into your midsection and sit straight up as in a seated pulley row, what you do instead is flare your lats at the stretch at the very beginning and keep your lats flared till you pull right over your kneecaps and then control the return to the stretch and repeat. Because your bent forward in a position that doesnt put your back in a precarious safety position you will have no worries with a rounded back. I guess a simple way i could describe it is
a)huge stretch at beginning
b)do half a pulley row movement but dont lean your torso backward or arch your back--keep it stabilized maybe only moving a few inches the whole movement
c)keep your lats flared outwards the whole way thru and dont crunch your scapula together--pull with your lats and pull the handle 2-3 inches over your kneecaps and return------15-30 reps rest paused is the deal on these and you will not be using the weight you use on seated pulley rows so wipe that from your memory banks


Tittel: SV: Noen gamle DC-stickyer + litt diverse
Skrevet av: Nudz20. august 2005, 18:26
Burde ikke denne være stickie da? Er jo noe av de viktigste i DC forum, selvom man vistnok kan lese det andre steder på norsk for øyeblikket, skal ikke linke =P