1 måltid om dagen (periodisk fasta)

[Beefcake]

Jeg tror kanskje et stikkord her vil være kjøtt. Selv har jeg ikke spist kjøtt på tjue år og jeg tror kanskje det ville gjort en slik spiseplan totalt umulig for meg. Kjøtt bruker vel relativt lang tid på å fordøyes og spiser du mye av det vil kanskje kroppen tilføres energi selv om det er lenge siden du spiste.

Mjo, men man måste ju inte ha mat i magen för att ha energi. Du har mer än nog lagrat främst som fett, men också som glykogen i muskler och lever.

[Mihoe]

Takk for gode svar Beefcake

Tviler på at en slik måte å spise på er noe for meg, men bra å ta liv av myter (eventuelt stille spørsmål ved vedtatte sanheter). Jeg er, i likhet med deg, for glad i mat.

[Beefcake]

Takk for gode svar Beefcake

Tviler på at en slik måte å spise på er noe for meg, men bra å ta liv av myter (eventuelt stille spørsmål ved vedtatte sanheter). Jeg er, i likhet med deg, for glad i mat.

Bare hyggelig

Nej, det passar ju förstås inte för alla. Jag äter inte en gång om dagen heller, utan snarare 2-3 ggr. Levde länge mot bättre vetande efter "ju fler måltider desto bättre", men det enda det egentligen ledde till var mer hål i tänderna... Trivs mycket bättre med att äta rejäla måltider istället för att gå och småäta hela tiden.

[kriweb]

Bare hyggelig

Nej, det passar ju förstås inte för alla. Jag äter inte en gång om dagen heller, utan snarare 2-3 ggr. Levde länge mot bättre vetande efter "ju fler måltider desto bättre", men det enda det egentligen ledde till var mer hål i tänderna... Trivs mycket bättre med att äta rejäla måltider istället för att gå och småäta hela tiden.

Off topic men.. kanskje en tur innom tannlegen en gang i året hadde hjulpet litt og  :

[Beefcake]

Off topic men.. kanskje en tur innom tannlegen en gang i året hadde hjulpet litt og  :

Ehum... :

[Beefcake]

Fasta gör dig (temporärt) smartare:

"Empty-Stomach Intelligence
By CHRISTOPHER SHEA
Published: December 10, 2006

Hunger makes the best sauce, goes the maxim. According to researchers at Yale Medical School, it may make quadratic equations and Kant’s categorical imperative go down easier too. The stimulation of hunger, the researchers announced in the March issue of Nature Neuroscience, causes mice to take in information more quickly, and to retain it better — basically, it makes them smarter. And that’s very likely to be true for humans as well.
 
A team led by Tamas Horvath, chairman of Yale’s comparative medicine program, had been analyzing the pathways followed in mouse brains by ghrelin, a hormone produced by the stomach lining, when the stomach is empty. To the scientists’ surprise, they found that ghrelin was binding to cells not just in the primitive part of the brain that registers hunger (the hypothalamus) but also in the region that plays a role in learning, memory and spatial analysis (the hippocampus).

The researchers then put mice injected with ghrelin and control mice through a maze and other intelligence tests. In each case, the biochemically “hungry” mice — mice infused with ghrelin — performed notably better than those with normal levels of the hormone. The finding was startling, but “it makes sense,” Horvath says. “When you are hungry, you need to focus your entire system on finding food in the environment.” In fact, some biologists believe that human intelligence itself evolved because it made early hominids more effective hunters, gathers and foragers.

Horvath says we can use the hormonal discoveries to our cognitive advantage. Facing the LSAT, a final exam or a half-day job interview? Go in mildly hungry, not carbo-loaded for endurance, and snack to maintain that edgy state. Such advice, applied on a national scale, might help save our schools. Since overweight kids have suppressed ghrelin levels, Horvath theorizes that perhaps the obesity epidemic has contributed to declining test scores and other American educational woes."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/magazine/10section1C.t-1.html?ex=1323406800&en=06f62b1f071e37ff&ei=5090

[Beefcake]

Intressant JohnBlond!

Tror en av nycklarna till ett långt liv stavas insulinsensitivitet.

Har man dålig insulinsensitivitet blir musklerna sämre på att reagera på insulin, vilket leder till två saker; dels att kroppen uppfattar mer av energin du får i dig via mat som överflödig och vill i högre grad lagra in den som fett, samt att kroppen utsöndrar mer insulin för att regulera blodsockret. Och ju mer insulin du utsöndrar genom livet, desto mer stress på insulin och IGF "signaling pathways" (1) med kortare livslängd, större risk för åldersrelaterade försämringar av kognitiva funktioner (minne, etc.), större risk för att drabbas av stroke, samt sjukdomar som Alzheimers, Parkinsons och Huntingtons.

Träning och ett sunt kosthåll (i betydningen att man begränsar först och främst mängden kalorier men även glykemiska belastningen) gör helt enkelt att du lever längre och friskare.

Om man är intresserad av att leva ett långt och friskt liv men samtidigt inte begränsa antalet kalorier man får i sig alltför mycket (svårt att bygga muskler då...) kan det vara en idé att glömma det här med att äta ofta och hellre följa ett upplägg med periodisk fasta. Studier visar att periodisk fasta (alltså t.ex. äta all mat för dagen inom en period av ett par timmar och fasta resten av dagen, eller fasta varannan dag) kan ha samma positiva effekter som kalorirestriktion, utan att man behöver begränsa antalet kalorier.

Periodisk fasta ökar insulinsensitiviteten (2).

Studier om periodisk fasta och livslängd, Alzheimers, etc (3,4,5,6,7).







1. "Single gene mutations that extend lifespan have drastically changed ageing research because they offer potential answers to the questions of why and how we age. Mutations that lower activity of the insulin and insulin-like growth factor signalling (IIS) pathways extend the lifespan of worms, flies and mice. It is possible, therefore, to learn about human ageing from the conserved features of these long-lived models. Here, we summarise the available data in this light.

Models of insulin signalling and longevity. Drug Discovery Today: Disease Models. Volume 2, Issue 4, Winter 2005, Pages 249-256



2. "Insulin resistance is currently a major health problem. This may be because of a marked decrease in daily physical activity during recent decades combined with constant food abundance. This lifestyle collides with our genome, which was most likely selected in the late Paleolithic era (50,000-10,000 BC) by criteria that favored survival in an environment characterized by fluctuations between periods of feast and famine. The theory of thrifty genes states that these fluctuations are required for optimal metabolic function. We mimicked the fluctuations in eight healthy young men [25.0 +/- 0.1 yr (mean +/- SE); body mass index: 25.7 +/- 0.4 kg/m(2)] by subjecting them to intermittent fasting every second day for 20 h for 15 days. Euglycemic hyperinsulinemic (40 mU.min(-1).m(-2)) clamps were performed before and after the intervention period. Subjects maintained body weight (86.4 +/- 2.3 kg; coefficient of variation: 0.8 +/- 0.1%). Plasma free fatty acid and beta-hydroxybutyrate concentrations were 347 +/- 18 and 0.06 +/- 0.02 mM, respectively, after overnight fast but increased (P < 0.05) to 423 +/- 86 and 0.10 +/- 0.04 mM after 20-h fasting, confirming that the subjects were fasting. Insulin-mediated whole body glucose uptake rates increased from 6.3 +/- 0.6 to 7.3 +/- 0.3 mg.kg(-1).min(-1) (P = 0.03), and insulin-induced inhibition of adipose tissue lipolysis was more prominent after than before the intervention (P = 0.05). After the 20-h fasting periods, plasma adiponectin was increased compared with the basal levels before and after the intervention (5,922 +/- 991 vs. 3,860 +/- 784 ng/ml, P = 0.02). This experiment is the first in humans to show that intermittent fasting increases insulin-mediated glucose uptake rates, and the findings are compatible with the thrifty gene concept."

Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men. J Appl Physiol. 2005 Dec;99(6):2128-36. Epub 2005 Jul 28.



3. "We conclude that caloric restriction and intermittent fasting dietary regimens can ameliorate age-related deficits in cognitive function by mechanisms that may or may not be related to Abeta and tau pathologies."

Intermittent fasting and caloric restriction ameliorate age-related behavioral deficits in the triple-transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer's disease. Neurobiol Dis. 2007 Apr;26(1):212-20. Epub 2007 Jan 13.



4. "The vulnerability of the nervous system to advancing age is all too often manifest in neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases. In this review article we describe evidence suggesting that two dietary interventions, caloric restriction (CR) and intermittent fasting (IF), can prolong the health-span of the nervous system by impinging upon fundamental metabolic and cellular signaling pathways that regulate life-span. CR and IF affect energy and oxygen radical metabolism, and cellular stress response systems, in ways that protect neurons against genetic and environmental factors to which they would otherwise succumb during aging."

Caloric restriction and intermittent fasting: two potential diets for successful brain aging.
Ageing Res Rev. 2006 Aug;5(3):332-53. Epub 2006 Aug 8.



5. "Intermittent fasting (IF; reduced meal frequency) and caloric restriction (CR) extend lifespan and increase resistance to age-related diseases in rodents and monkeys and improve the health of overweight humans. Both IF and CR enhance cardiovascular and brain functions and improve several risk factors for coronary artery disease and stroke including a reduction in blood pressure and increased insulin sensitivity. Cardiovascular stress adaptation is improved and heart rate variability is increased in rodents maintained on an IF or a CR diet. Moreover, rodents maintained on an IF regimen exhibit increased resistance of heart and brain cells to ischemic injury in experimental models of myocardial infarction and stroke. The beneficial effects of IF and CR result from at least two mechanisms--reduced oxidative damage and increased cellular stress resistance. Recent findings suggest that some of the beneficial effects of IF on both the cardiovascular system and the brain are mediated by brain-derived neurotrophic factor signaling in the brain. Interestingly, cellular and molecular effects of IF and CR on the cardiovascular system and the brain are similar to those of regular physical exercise, suggesting shared mechanisms. A better understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms by which IF and CR affect the blood vessels and heart and brain cells will likely lead to novel preventative and therapeutic strategies for extending health span."

Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular systems.
J Nutr Biochem. 2005 Mar;16(3):129-37.



6. "Although all cells in the body require energy to survive and function properly, excessive calorie intake over long time periods can compromise cell function and promote disorders such as cardiovascular disease, type-2 diabetes and cancers. Accordingly, dietary restriction (DR; either caloric restriction or intermittent fasting, with maintained vitamin and mineral intake) can extend lifespan and can increase disease resistance. Recent studies have shown that DR can have profound effects on brain function and vulnerability to injury and disease. DR can protect neurons against degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and Huntington's diseases and stroke. Moreover, DR can stimulate the production of new neurons from stem cells (neurogenesis) and can enhance synaptic plasticity, which may increase the ability of the brain to resist aging and restore function following injury. Interestingly, increasing the time interval between meals can have beneficial effects on the brain and overall health of mice that are independent of cumulative calorie intake."

Meal size and frequency affect neuronal plasticity and vulnerability to disease: cellular and molecular mechanisms.
J Neurochem. 2003 Feb;84(3):417-31.



7. "Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance, reduced morbidity, and increased life span.

"intermittent fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has beneficial effects on glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to injury in these mice that are independent of caloric intake."

Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury from calorie intake. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 May 13; 100(10): 6216–6220.

[Beefcake]

Intressant artikel om ämnet:

"Dr. Art De Vany describes himself as a scientist/athlete. He's competed in Olympic weightlifting, motocross, and even played minor league baseball. At 6'1" and 208 pounds, today he carries only 8% body fat. Pretty admirable. De Vany barely had time to do this interview. He was headed off to Colorado to ride in the KTM Rocky Mountain Raid, an adventure motorcycling event.

Oh, did I mention Dr. De Vany is pushing 70 years old?"

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=709484

- Han överskattar nog dock GH's (tillväxthormon) anabola effekt. För det första så är GH inte särskilt anabolt hos vuxna människor, bara fettförbrännande. Och protein och karbo efter träning ökar GH-frisättning, inte tvärtom som han hävdar.

Men han säger mycket annat intressant som går på IF, åldrande och hälsa. Han har ju också definitivt åldern och formen att backa upp det med.

[Tox]

Lurer på en ting, Beefcake.

Jeg trener som regel på ganske tom mage, men jeg har en shake som jeg drikker under trening med ca. 30-35g Karbo og 20-25g protein, og en shake etter trening med ca 45-55g karbo og 35-50g proteiner.

Vis jeg drikker den shaken under trening, har det noen negative virkninger for Gh hormonene, stress for magen eller noe annet? Jeg synes det hjelper, siden jeg trener opptil 1,5 timer enkelte ganger.

[Beefcake]

Lurer på en ting, Beefcake.

Jeg trener som regel på ganske tom mage, men jeg har en shake som jeg drikker under trening med ca. 30-35g Karbo og 20-25g protein, og en shake etter trening med ca 45-55g karbo og 35-50g proteiner.

Vis jeg drikker den shaken under trening, har det noen negative virkninger for Gh hormonene, stress for magen eller noe annet? Jeg synes det hjelper, siden jeg trener opptil 1,5 timer enkelte ganger.

Nej, absolut inte. Protein/karbo-intag i samband med träning ökar GH-frigöringen:

"Our laboratory reported that a protein and carbohydrate supplement consumed before and immediately after resistance exercise enhanced the acute GH response from 0 to 30 min postexercise compared with a noncaloric placebo despite similar glucose levels between trials. Compared with placebo, a protein and carbohydrate supplement consumed immediately and 120 min after resistance exercise increased GH during late recovery when glucose levels were lower. "

Influence of Nutrition on Responses to Resistance Training. Medicine and science in sports and exercise. 2004, vol. 36, no4, pp. 689-696


Dock är GH inte speciellt muskelbyggande för vuxna människor (men möjligtvis för äldre):

"In contrast, the currently available data suggest that GH administration alone or in combination with strength exercise has little, if any, effect on muscle volume, strength and fibre composition in non-GH-deficient healthy young individuals. This assumption is supported by the lack of evidence for a significant performance-enhancing effect of GH in athletes. However, further studies will be necessary to define patient populations which might benefit from GH treatment like frail elderly individuals in whom a GH-induced change into a more youthful muscle fibre composition has been reported."

Effects of growth hormone on skeletal muscle. Horm Res. 2002;58 Suppl 3:43-8.


Det är essentiella aminosyror, alltså protein, som är muskelbyggande. 

[Tox]

Takk for svar, da fortsetter jeg med en shake under trening og en etter

[Tox]

Fant denne artikkelen på pubmed:

Muscle is a target of growth hormone (GH) action and a major contributor to whole body metabolism. Little is known about how GH regulates metabolic processes in muscle or the extent to which muscle contributes to changes in whole body substrate metabolism during GH treatment. To identify GH-responsive genes that regulate substrate metabolism in muscle, we studied six hypopituitary men who underwent whole body metabolic measurement and skeletal muscle biopsies before and after 2 wk of GH treatment (0.5 mg/day). Transcript profiles of four subjects were analyzed using Affymetrix GeneChips. Serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) and procollagens I and III were measured by RIA. GH increased serum IGF-I and procollagens I and III, enhanced whole body lipid oxidation, reduced carbohydrate oxidation, and stimulated protein synthesis. It induced gene expression of IGF-I and collagens in muscle. GH reduced expression of several enzymes regulating lipid oxidation and energy production. It reduced calpain 3, increased ribosomal protein L38 expression, and displayed mixed effects on genes encoding myofibrillar proteins. It increased expression of circadian gene CLOCK, and reduced that of PERIOD. In summary, GH exerted concordant effects on muscle expression and blood levels of IGF-I and collagens. It induced changes in genes regulating protein metabolism in parallel with a whole body anabolic effect. The discordance between muscle gene expression profiles and metabolic responses suggests that muscle is unlikely to contribute to GH-induced stimulation of whole body energy and lipid metabolism. GH may regulate circadian function in skeletal muscle by modulating circadian gene expression with possible metabolic consequences.

1: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul;293(1):E364-71. Epub 2007 Apr 24.

Siden GH øker Proteinsyntesen så er det vel anabolt?

[Beefcake]

Fant denne artikkelen på pubmed:

Muscle is a target of growth hormone (GH) action and a major contributor to whole body metabolism. Little is known about how GH regulates metabolic processes in muscle or the extent to which muscle contributes to changes in whole body substrate metabolism during GH treatment. To identify GH-responsive genes that regulate substrate metabolism in muscle, we studied six hypopituitary men who underwent whole body metabolic measurement and skeletal muscle biopsies before and after 2 wk of GH treatment (0.5 mg/day). Transcript profiles of four subjects were analyzed using Affymetrix GeneChips. Serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) and procollagens I and III were measured by RIA. GH increased serum IGF-I and procollagens I and III, enhanced whole body lipid oxidation, reduced carbohydrate oxidation, and stimulated protein synthesis. It induced gene expression of IGF-I and collagens in muscle. GH reduced expression of several enzymes regulating lipid oxidation and energy production. It reduced calpain 3, increased ribosomal protein L38 expression, and displayed mixed effects on genes encoding myofibrillar proteins. It increased expression of circadian gene CLOCK, and reduced that of PERIOD. In summary, GH exerted concordant effects on muscle expression and blood levels of IGF-I and collagens. It induced changes in genes regulating protein metabolism in parallel with a whole body anabolic effect. The discordance between muscle gene expression profiles and metabolic responses suggests that muscle is unlikely to contribute to GH-induced stimulation of whole body energy and lipid metabolism. GH may regulate circadian function in skeletal muscle by modulating circadian gene expression with possible metabolic consequences.

1: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul;293(1):E364-71. Epub 2007 Apr 24.

Siden GH øker Proteinsyntesen så er det vel anabolt?

Jag har väl inte sagt något annat...? Det jag sa var att GH inte är speciellt muskelbyggande, inte att det inte alls är det. Dock har proteinintag i samband med träning betydligt större "effekt".

Det du frågade om var om det var om shaken under träning hade några negativa verkningar för GH-utsöndring, och det har det inte.

För övrigt så omhandlar den där studien supplementering med GH ("GH treatment (0.5 mg/day)") för folk som har fel på hypofysen.

[Avalon]

Hmm, FØR jeg begynte å tenke på kosthold, spiste jeg 1-2måltider om dagen. Aldri på formiddagen, og måltidene besto stort sett av kjøtt, egg, ost, tja... Proteiner og fett rett og slett. Noe karbohydrater fikk jeg jo i meg, men var kresen og spiste hverken brød, poteter, frokostblandinger, bakevarer eller lignende.

Så fikk jeg beskjed om at jeg måtte "gjøre noe" med kostholdet. Spise hver 3.time, mer karbohydrater, sky fett som pesten osv. Jeg la om vanene mine, og i tillegg til å legge på meg 6kilo, er jeg sulten HELE tiden. Kroppen higer etter noe hele tiden, og jeg har faktisk begynt å spise godteri og kaker! Før kunne jeg ikke drømme om å spise bakevarer, kroppen ville ikke ha det!

Så nå har jeg bestemt meg for å gå tilbake til de gamle vanene - som var det kroppen ville ha. Jeg gikk aldri sulten, og var i mitt livs form.


Friend of Avalon

[Woody]

Ser at de som har prøvd dette har brukt "tilskudd" om dagen og spist et stort måltid om kvelden.
Med tilskudd menes proteinpulvet, etc? Vil det fungere på samme måte hvis man lever på proteinshaker om dagen, og spiser et stort måltid om kvelden? Da vil jo man slippe å spise et helt enormt måltid om kvelden vel?