Dette er etter min mening det viktigste avsnittet i artikkelen, men det har allikevel ingen referanse. Har du lest forskning som indikerer dette? Ullis-studiet kunne jeg ikke finne, har du en lenke til det? Jeg sier ikke at det uviktig, men flere studier har vist at etter en akutt topp, vil testosteronnivå dale og forbli lavt i tre-fire timer etter trening. Hvis din hypotese om at akutt høyt testosteronnivå vil være merkbart anabolt, vil det logisk følge at tre-fire timer med akutt lavt testosteronivå vil være like merkbart katabolt.
Ellers er jeg uenig i at vekshormon har nevneverdige anabole effekter (dog sikkert antikatabole og fettforbrennende). Selv om HGH øker blodverdiene av IGF-1 gjennom leveren, er det lokale (dvs inni muskelen) IGF1-verdier som er viktig når det gjelder muskelvekst (1, 2).
[1] Hameed M, Orrell RW, Cobbold M, Goldspink G, Harridge SD. Expression of IGF-I splice variants in young and old human skeletal muscle after high resistance exercise. J Physiol. 2003 Feb 15;547(Pt 1):247-54.
[2] Isaksson OG, Jansson JO, Sjogren K, Ohlsson C. Metabolic functions of liver-derived (endocrine) insulin-like growth factor I. Horm Res. 2001;55 Suppl 2:18-21.
PS. At Ronnie Coleman tåler mye trening har nok en del med at han administrerer sine egne hormonnivå.
Gode innspill, takk skal du ha!
Det du sier om Coleman er det vanskelig å si seg uenig i, selvsagt. Ville bare ikke at folk skulle henge seg opp i en negativ omtale av Coleman i artikkelen, derfor sa jeg det ikke direkte.
Jeg er også tilbøyelig til å være enig i din hypotese om IGF1. Derfor uttalte jeg meg også veldig forsiktig i artikkelen:
"Det knytter seg stor usikkerhet til hvordan - og i hvilken grad det er mulig- å påvirke andelen IGF gjennom trening og kosthold. Grunnen til at vi har tatt det med her er primært at flere produsenter av kost-tilskudd, som også finnes på det norske markedet, argumenterer med at deres produkter øker kroppens utskillelse av IGF i blodet, noe som visstnok også skal føre til en bedret proteinsyntese." Jeg har bevisst utelatt å navngi hvilke produkter og produsenter det dreier seg om. Men jeg er i likhet med deg også tilbøyelig til å tro at IGF1 kan fungere anti-katabolt, så jeg avviser derfor ikke verdien av IGF kan ha for å oppnå muskelvekst.
Når det gjelder Ullis, er dette en bok (se referanselisten i artikkelen) - finnes ikke på nett. Du må derfor kjøpe/låne boken hans hvis du er spesielt interessert. Etter mitt skjønn er det kanskje ikke verdt pengene for en viderekommen innen idrettsfysiologi, selvom boken inneholder nyttige referanser, og selv om Ullis kanskje er en av de som har størst klinisk erfaring med hormon-manipulering for utøvere på høyt nivå. Jeg har bestilt den siste boken til Kraemer et al, og kan selvsagt dele innsikter fra denne hvis den holder det høye faglige nivået som omtalene av 2. utgave kan tyde på.
Men forøvrig har du rett i at noen studier har påvist temmelig svingende verdier av biologisk tilgjengelig testosteron etter trening. Det er imidlertid uenighet, så vidt jeg kan se, når det gjelder hva som er kritiske verdier av Testo versus andre hormon i de første 6 timene etter trening. Flere tror dette skyldes hva og når man spiser/drikker etter trening. Jeg tror det er riktig å si at det fremdeles er stor usikkerhet rundt akkurat dette. På hjemmesidene til dr.squat.com (som forøvrig inneholder de klassiske og morsomme anti-HIT artiklene til Dr. Squat), er dette diskutert av
David Woodhouse, som har referert til noe forskning på temaet.
Han sier følgende:
"T is a powerful anabolic hormone that increases and limits muscle protein synthesis by increasing transport of amino acid across cell membranes and by increasing mRNA and DNA synthesis (10). It is also an anti-catabolic hormone that inhibits cortisol by competing for receptor sites (7, 11). (One of cortisol's functions is to promote the breakdown of muscle by converting amino acids to carbohydrates) In addition to these anabolic effects, T is also beneficial for strength and power athletes since it contributes to the conversion of type IIa muscle fibres into faster type IIb. T increases the secretion of the other anabolic hormones, growth hormone and Insulin-Like Growth Factors from the liver (13). Lastly T stimulates of erythropoietin synthesis and hence explains the higher hematocrit value in males versus females (11). ...
Appropriate resistance exercise causes an increase in serum T post exercise of up to 70% (5,6,8,9,10).
T response to an identical workout can however fluctuate widely (10). This suggests that resistance exercise interacts with other factors to cause elevated serum T. There are a number of conflicting theories as to the possible cause of this increase. Renal blood flow is reduced and this may lead to decreased metabolic clearance of T. There may also be an alteration in testicular blood flow causing an increase in secretion from the Leydig cells. Lastly a decrease in plasma volume due to movement of water out of the cardiovascular system, would cause an increase in T concentration without an increase in total T (8,9,10). ...
Multi-joint exercises, such as squats, that utilise large muscle masses are more effective than isolation exercises of smaller muscle groups (6). Some evidence suggests T concentrations decrease after around one hour of intense resistance training. Further research is required to determine the optimum volume, intensity and recovery to induce the greatest increase in T"
Her er noen av referansene hans:
1. Chandler R. M., H. K. Byrne, J. G. Patterson and J. L. Ivy. Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight training exercise. J. Appl. Phsiol. 76(2): 839-845, 1994
2. George, A. J. In Drugs in Sport, D. R. Mottram (Ed.). St Edmundsbury Press Ltd., 1988, pp. 59 - 78
3. Griggs R. C, et al. Effect of testosterone on muscle mass and protein synthesis. J. Appl. Physiol. 66(1):498 - 503, 1989
4. Friedl, K. E. et al. Endocrine markers of semistarvation in healthy lean men in a multistressor environment. J. Appl. Phsiol. 88: 1820-1830, 2000
5. Hakkinen, K., A. Pakarinen, M. Alen, H. Kauhanen and P. V. Komi. Neuromuscular and hormonal adaptations in athletes to strength training in two years. J. Appl. Physiol. 65(6): 2406-2412, 1988
6. Hakkinen, K. and A. Pakarinen. Acute hormonal responses to two different fatiguing heavy resistance protocols in male athletes. J. Appl. Physiol. 74(2): 882-887, 1993
7. Hoogeveen A. R. and M. L. Zonderland. Relationships between testosterone, cortisol and performance in professional cyclists. Int. J. Sports Med. 17(6): 423 - 428, 1996
8. Kraemer, W. J. Endocrine Responses to resistance exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 20(5): 152-157, 1988
9. Kramer, W. J. et al. Hormonal and growth factor responses to heavy resistance exercise protocols. J. Appl. Physiol. 69(40): 1442-1450, 1990
10. Loebel, C. C. and W. J. Kraemer. Testosterone and resistance exercise in men. J. Strength and Cond. Res. 12(1): 57-63, 1998
11. Porterfield S. P. In Endocrine Physiology II, W. Schmitt (Ed.). Mosby Inc. 2001
12. Singh A. Magnesium, zinc and copper status of 270 US navy SEAL trainees. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 49: 695 - 700, 1989
13. Kraemer, W. J. In Strength and Power in Sports. P. V. Komi (Ed.) Blackwell Science Ltd, 1992, pp.64 - 76
Men det er riktig at forskningen her ikke har noe entydig svar. Jeg vil imidlertid være tilbøyelig til å hevde at
en høyest mulig verdi av testosteron i tiden rett etter trening er gunstig i "konkurransen" med kortisol. Problemet er at vi ikke "can have it both ways at the same time".
Men det følger ikke av dette at det er uinteressant å ha høyest mulig nivå av T. i det vi heller i oss post-exercise drikken/maten! Spørsmålet blir da nøyaktig når du skal innta raske karbs etter trening. Men det er riktig at den insulin-responsen man da får kan påvirke testosteron-nivået i noen timer, slik du nevner. Når det gjelder totalsummen tror jeg likevel det er riktig å hevde at inntak av raske karbs rett etter trening er viktig. Dette er også Bryan Haycock enig i;
"
It's about synergyAs mentioned earlier, macronutrient intake modulates post-exercise protein synthesis in ways that are just beginning to be understood. Yes, protein is required to supply essential amino acids for protein synthesis, but what is the mechanism by which protein is controlling this process? Also, are carbohydrates and fats needed only for fuel replacement, or do they play an "interactive" role in post exercise protein synthesis? Recent research has shed light on these questions.
Researchers from the Division of Nutritional Sciences at the University of Illinois examined the effect of post exercise meal composition on protein synthesis. To do this, they looked specifically at the activity of specific proteins known to regulate protein synthesis at the translational level.
Initiation of translation (the binding of mRNA to the ribosomal pre-initiation complex) requires group 4 eukaryotic initiation factors (eIFs). These initiation factors interact with the mRNA in such a way that makes translation (the construction of new proteins from the mRNA strand) possible. Two eIFs, called eIF4A and eIF4B, act in concert to unwind the mRNA strand. Another one called eIF4E binds to what is called the "cap region" and is important for controlling which mRNA strands are translated and also for stabilization of the mRNA strand. Finally, eIF4G is a large polypeptide that acts as a scaffold or framework around which all of these initiation factors and the mRNA and ribosome can be kept in place and proper orientation for translation.
The researchers in this study looked at the association of the mRNA cap binding protein eukaryotic initiation factor-4-E (eIF4E) with the translational inhibitor 4E-eukaryotic initiation factor binding protein-1 (4E-BP1) in the acute modulation of skeletal muscle protein synthesis during recovery from exercise. Fasting male rats were run on a treadmill for 2 h at 26 m/min and were fed immediately after exercise with saline, a carbohydrate-only meal, or a nutritionally complete meal using Ensure Powder (54.5% carbohydrate, 14% protein, and 31.5% fat). Exercised animals and non-exercised controls were studied 1 h post-exercise.
Muscle protein synthesis decreased 26% after exercise and was associated with a fourfold increase in the amount of eIF4E present in the inactive eIF4E.4E-BP1 complex and a concomitant 71% decrease in the association of eIF4E with eIF4G. Refeeding the complete meal, but not the carbohydrate meal, increased muscle protein synthesis equal to controls, despite similar plasma concentrations of insulin. Additionally, eIF4E.4E-BP1 association was inversely related and eIF4E.eIF4G association was positively correlated to muscle protein synthesis. This study demonstrates that recovery of muscle protein synthesis after exercise is related to the availability of eIF4E for 48S ribosomal complex formation, and post-exercise meal composition influences recovery via modulation of translation initiation.
The results of this study tell us a few things:
1. Insulin (via carbohydrate intake) alone is not enough to prevent 4E-BP1 from sequestering eIF4E. EIF4E must be free to bind to eIF4G in order for protein synthesis (i.e. recovery from training and net muscle growth) to begin. Insulin as well as amino acids must be present at the same time as indicated by the results from the group that were fed a mixed nutrient meal. So although feeding of the carbohydrate meal resulted in elevated blood glucose and elevated insulin levels, carbohydrates alone are not sufficient to allow protein synthesis to begin.
2. The only group that experienced a significant drop in cortisol levels was the mixed meal group. The carbohydrate-only group showed that neither blood glucose nor insulin had any effect on reducing cortisol levels. In contrast, the mixed meal group showed cortisol levels even below those in the control group who did no exercise and were also fed the same meal.
It would have been nice for the authors of this experiment to explore the effect of the fat content in the "mixed meal". From the results we saw that cortisol was lower in the mixed meal group. We can only speculate whether this was due to the protein, the fat, or some combination of protein, fat and carbs. Further research in this area should take into consideration all components of the post exercise meal. One other issue that might be addressed in humans is the time frame during which re-alimentation is critical to "long term" adaptation to exercise.
In closing...Pre- and post-exercise nutrition is critical if one wants to maximize the anabolic effects of exercise. The pre-exercise meal should be high in a quickly digestible protein. This will ensure high delivery of amino acids to the muscle tissue. Carbohydrates can also be taken in to minimize glycogen loss and suppress catabolic hormones. Fat should be avoided pre-exercise unless the exercise is for endurance.
The post exercise meal should consist of carbohydrate, protein and perhaps a small amount of essential fats, in a form that is easily and quickly digestible. There are many meal replacement products that fit the bill. Just pick the one you like the most. Don't worry about sugar content because right after a workout, fat storage is not a big issue. A liquid meal is the most practical method of post-exercise feeding although it is probably not essential. The ratio of macronutrients depends somewhat on the nature of the training session. An emphasis on high glycemic carbs, complete readily digestible proteins such as whey, egg, or high quality casein, and essential fats such as fish or flax oil will meet the criteria for an effective post exercise meal.
References:
Burke LM. Nutrition for post-exercise recovery. Aust J Sci Med Sport Mar;29(1):3-10, 1997
Butterfield GE, Whole-body protein utilization in humans. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc., Vol. 19, No. 5 (Supplement), pp. S157-S165, 1987.
Gisolfi CV., Lamb DRR. (Eds.) Perspectives In Exercise Science and Sports Medicine Volume 3: Fluid Homeostasis During Exercise. Cooper Publishing Group, LLC 1990.
Gontzea I, Sutzescu P, Dumitrache S. The influence of adaptation to physical effort on nitrogen balance in man. Nutr. Rept. Inturn. 11:231-236, 1975
Goodyear LJ, Kahn BB, Exercise, glucose transport, and insulin sensitivity. Annu. Rev. Med. 49:235-261, 1998
Halseth AE, Bracy DP, Wasserman DH. Limitations to exercise- and maximal insulin-stimulated muscle glucose uptake. J. Appl. Physiol. 85(6):2305-2313, 1998
Hayashi N, Tashiro T, Yamamori H, Takagi K, Morishima Y, Otsubo Y, Sugiura T, Furukawa K, Nitta H, Nakajima N, Suzuki N, Ito I Effect of intravenous omega-6 and omega-3 fat emulsions on nitrogen retention and protein kinetics in burned rats. Nutrition 1999 Feb;15(2):135-9
MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise. Can J Appl Physiol 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6
Sherman LA, Hirshman MF, Cormont M, Le Marchand-Brustel Y, Goodyear LJ. Different effects of insulin and exercise on Rab4 distribution in rat skeletal muscle. Endocrinology 137:266-73, 1996
Smith L.L, Fulmer M.G, Holbert D, McCammon M.R, Houmard J.A, Frazer D.D, Nsien E, and Isreal R.G. The impact of a repeated bout of eccentric exercise on muscular strength, muscle soreness and creatine kinase. Br. J. Sports Med.1994; 28 (4) 267-271.
Tarpenning KM, Wiswell RA, Marcell TJ, Hawkins SA. Influence of Weight Training Exercise and Modification of Hormonal Response on Skeletal Muscle Growth. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 1998 May;30(5) Supplement; S1-S1339
Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206."
Fra:
http://www.beyondmuscle.com/prepexnuttom.htmlSom sagt, man skal være forsiktig med å trekke FOR bastante og vidtrekkende konklusjoner basert på den forskning som er utført.