Tøff diskusjon Hitman!
Her svarer DC på en lignende tråd på et helt annet forum, hvor han svarer på en tråd fra Diskey. her er en av postene hans:
DC::You know what I was going to keep out of this because honestly I could care less how people choose to train. In my opinion whether you do 30 sets a bodypart or 1 set a bodypart, if your beating what youve done last week, last month, last year or any time previously (and your recovering) then your gaining. I really feel people blame lack of gains on training way too much when 90% of the time its your diet thats keeping you back. If your stuck at 250 and your training is better and your stronger than you have ever been and you are doing things you couldnt achieve in the gym previously, your problem is simply your diet is keeping you from gaining muscle mass. You cant get to 280lbs if your 250 and eating like a guy who is 240lbs as simple as that sounds. I was ok with everyone on this threads opinion until I got to diskeys and im going to reply to it because i think he is full of bullshit
Diskey said::IMO I think DC kind of preach his methods as Mr.Bicep say, and thats a quite ignorant thing to do, reminds me a lot of Menzter which probably died in anger and frustration because he was so bastant. I've read most of DC's stuff and his making fun of all the volum guys who don't get anywhere and claims they for example are "way back in the rear mirror" considering where they could have been with his methods.
DC::You want to hear me preach? I preach when people use my name and tell everyone they did DC training but it didnt work for them and what they truly did was a "clusterfuck version" of it with multiple sets and multiple exercises ---pretty much their own version of training and then throwing some stretches and rest pauses in there DC style. So yea I get pissed at that, my name is on this--if your going to throw my name around then at least have the obligation of doing my methods correctly. I think after 4 years and all the posts and all the pics on all the boards I think I have a pretty good backing that my methods work extremely well for people....thats all Ill say on that front---the bottom line is train the way you want to train but please dont say you did my methods if you truly didnt do them like I have them designed.
Diskey said::He's also making a lot of fun of Flex Magazine, which is pretty riduculus. Flex's staff dosen't just sit in their office and make things up for Gods sake!, the thing Flex is known for is that they actually go out in the field and interview athletes about their training and eating habits and then write what they actually do. And it's pretty damn strange that 99% of these people uses some kind of higher volum training when DC is so superior isn't it?.
DC:: I laughed long and hard at this one. My man you have no idea. There are the rare pros that write their own articles, but the majority are ghost written by 165lb guys who you wouldnt know trained a day in their life. I dont mean this to be a putdown to the greatest bodybuilder on the planet but ever hear Ronnie talk? Ever read Ronnie's articles in Flex? Do you think for one second Ronnie is writing that? Does Ronnie use words like "intangibles" and "deductive reasoning"? There is a guy writing for muscular development who is a 340lb obese 20 year old kid who has lifted for maybe 2 weeks of his whole life. Now if they actually go to Ronnies gym and record what goes on theres an article you can believe in (like the latest Flex where they went to Metroflex) but by and large Diskey your reading articles by guys who cant squat 250lbs telling you about Ronnies training with their own thoughts, not Ronnies.
Diskey::If you take a look in Arnold's enclopedia of modern bodybuilding he talks a litte about HIT, and as he clears HIT isn't anything Mentzer invented. Those guys in the early 1940's trained like this way before anyone knew what volume trainig was!. His also stating the total opposite of DC that he would like to see what those guys would have looked like if they know how to workout with proper volume training.
DC::So volume is the answer? Hell Diskey why stop at 20 sets a bodypart then, why not go to 100 sets a bodypart? Oh wait Michalik and Defendis already did that both with great genetics and Michalik used amounts of steroids that would kill an adult rhino. He topped out at 232lbs--what the hell happened?
Diskey::Further, Arnold is using the bicep as an example; How the **** are you gonna devlop a full blown bicep with great separtions and overall size with 1-2-3 different HIT excersies when you can work the outer head, the inner head, the lower or higher part or the brancia area ?!
DC::LOL If you really think you can isolate one quadrant of a muscle, I shouldnt even comment further...a muscle either contracts or it doesnt. You can put yourself into mechanical positions to get the most from an exercise (i.e. a squat vs a leg extension) but you sure as hell cant isolate quadrant 6b of sector 7 of your inner biceps.
Diskey:: Bodybuilding is not about building a big "bad" looking powerhouse, it's about devoloping every muscle to its greatest potenisal with a great symmetri, and to do that you have to tear down muscle fiberes from all possible angles. Top ripped bodybuilders should look like a freakin anathomy chart, thats bodybuilding!
DC::Really? why is the main problem in bodybuilding always that someone doesnt have enough size? Since you cant change shape but you can get bigger with the shape you were genetically born with....I keep seeing people saying "not big enough" "needs to get bigger" "has everything but cant compete with the big boys"---Seriously man do you think Flex Wheeler would turn himself into a blocky wide waisted Tim Belknap by a certain way of training? Or Vice versa?
Diskey::Also one thing you should take into consideration is that Dorian and Mentzer and probably DC too built their fundation size on volume and then way later in their bb carrier changed to HIT methods.
DC::I severely overtrained with 12-20 sets per bodypart and wasted a whole 2 years of training when I was younger and it was my own fault. I train incredibly hard and find it incredibly difficult to not train at full speed. My leg workouts during my 3rd and 4th years of training were taking me 3.5 hours in the gym to get done and i was destroyed after. I gained jack during that time and it stuck with me that one mans 20 is another mans 5.
Diskey:: Dorian actually used to work out 4 days a week with 2-3 sets on each excersise to just before he started preparing for the last Mr.O he won when he changed to only one work set. Mentzer also didn't use all of his principles before he starteted preapring for his last Mr. O in 1980 where he placed at a dissapointing 5th place. Think of Arnolds body devolopment at it's peak and then give him quality steroids, gh and slin etc, -I'm so tired of people putting down his psyche and comapring him to todays athletes.
DC::I interviewed Don Ross before he died, and he said he would sue me if I printed this at that time but I will say it now. Don said Dball was 1.50 to 3.00 a bottle during the early 70's and that it was fact that Arnold Franco and their sometime training partner Ric Drasin were using up to 30-60 tabs of 5mg dball per day. Ross said Drasin had serious side effects and had to back off but franco and Arnold kept blasting it down the hatch. Thats alot of methandrost to use.
Diskey::If I use a little research to analyze DC's methods I don' get anywhere with it really. HIT is about going all the way on that one work set, you can also use some of Mentzer's golden principles to get this one set exhastion. Now this is a very brutal way of working out and if your able to do this correctly you would get really depleted and after you've trained this way for a while and keep getting stronger you have to compensate for this by turning down the frequensy, -perhaps let one bodypart rest for 10+ days to be able to fully recover. Now DC style is really just a high frequent HIT scheme, and if you have a good mental-body connection and go all the way out on those few sets there is no way you can blast them again 4 days later ! DC says "How can't you recover from one damn set in 4 days?!" thats make no sense - he is advocating HIT and that's just not the way it works!
DC::That research you speak of seems to come from "The Diskey Institute of "I cant deal with the fact that those guys over there are gaining muscle mass and its not the way I train"
Diskey::The simple reason why people can change from volume to DC style and gain is because it's variation for the body!, and the reason why his clients or disicples don't get burned out is because they dont nearly workout beyond physcial to mental failure as they should if they want to get some way with HIT methods in the long run.
DC::I got no idea what you are saying here but Im guessing your saying DC guys dont train hard. For the guys in this forum who I train, I guess they can answer to that--LOL. Heres my thoughts--most people get into bodybuilding because they are terribly insecure, obsessive compulsive or in the rare case sometimes they have their head on straight and are an athlete. Now when you combine insecurity with obsessive compulsiveness guess what you come out with training wise? You come out with alot of guys who feel they MUST do this exercise and that exercise and that exercise over there and MUST do this many sets or they wont get bigger. All this is done with no rhyme or reason and no plan but simply obsessiveness with getting bigger and the insecurity that if you dont do something your going to get smaller.......what do most people get taught in training? everything is a derivative from Arnold, changed very slightly thru the years so everyone is still doing the same things and every time some new guy picks up flex magazine that will be one more guy taught to train like Old School Arnold. Im sorry but Im new school and I like to gain muscle mass at the fastest rate that I can come up with possible---im not patient enough to gain 52 times a year by training a bodypart once a week--i like gaining 90 times a year so like i said, to each his own. Do what you have to do to become a good bodybuilder and still be satisfied in your head that your covering all bases so you wont get freaked about it. Just the fact that my methods are being used here as the whipping boy tells me "hey I got to be doing something right".