mellommåltid

[SilverFox]

Evolusjonen av menneske ligger vel 10-20.000år bak i tid (om jeg husker riktig), så forandringen kan ikke ha vært så veldig svær de siste årene heller. Greit å at menneske var sikkert ikke kroppsbyggere på den tiden heller, men jeg tviler sterkt på at de spiste hver 3-4 time så la oss si de fikk 1-2 måltid daglig, hvor de kun klarte ta opp 60g protein så hadde jo det vært litt merkelig!

I og med at protein er viktig i mange prosesser i kroppen (ikke bare bygging).

Eksempel

La oss si en stamme mennesker får fullklaff på jakt. Alle får omtrent et kjøttstykke på 500g hver og spiser det. Hvis de kun klarer å ta opp 30g protein av hele kjøttstykke, og det var det eneste de fikk den dagen. Ville ikke vi mennesker vært relativt doomed da?

For 10.000 år siden dyrket de korn i midtøsten, og de malte storslagne malerier i franske huler for mer enn 30.000 år siden, så en må nok litt lengre tilbake i tid. Poenget er uansett helt riktig - den mennesklige organisme er utrolig tilpassningsdyktig til ulike typer kosthold, noe som gjør oss blandt de mest tilpassningsdyktige av dyrene også - ikke til forkleinelse for hender og store hjerner........

At en kan overleve på noe betyr imidlertid ikke at det er optimalt. Som du sier var de ikke kroppsbyggere, og slapp heldigvis å tenke som kroppsbyggere. Hadde de gjort det, så hadde vi vært utraderte før de første arkaiske H.sapiens vandret rundt i Afrika for mer enn 200.000 år siden - ja kanskje allerede på Australopithecus afarensis' tid ("Lucy"  du vet).....

Slik sett kan vi takke faan for at våre tidligere forfedre ikke fikk slike fikse ideer som Eugen Sandow og hans like fikk for drøyt 100 år siden.........  Da hadde vi vært doomed!!!!!

[Beefcake]

Har inte orkat läsa hela tråden här, men fått med mig om att den omhandlar frågan att äta en gång om dagen kontra flera gånger..?

En klar fördel med att äta ofta och lite är att det kan stimulera till lägre frigöring av kortisol (som är muskelnedbrytande, sänker testosteronnivåerna, trycker ned immunförsvaret samt höjer halterna av glukos i blodet). Andra fördelar är att frekventa måltider håller blodsockret på en jämnare nivå och sänker kolesterolnivåerna. Samt så är det ju betydligt lättare att hålla aptiten under kontroll med fler måltider...

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_11_22/ai_n8591758

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/30/meals.htm

D

[UpAndComming]

Men hadde du lest hele tråden hadde du sett at dette ikke handler om personlige preferanser og hva som er "enkelt", eller snarere "enklest".

Uansett, det å spise med lavere frekvens og større mengde, har også visse hormonelle fordeler, noe som i grunn er opplagt med tanke på at kroppen er utmerket til å tilpasse seg miljøforandringer også innen mat.

Når du videre nevner kortisol så må det sies at mengden mat, totalt sett, også her ville spille inn - og hvor hardt man faktisk velger å gå på dietten.

[Baahh]

Diskusjonen var svært enkel her. Jeg kan oppsummere den.

Siden du er på deff bør du prøve å spise små måltider ofte, det hjelper deg å få opp forbrenningen.

(Her påstår altså et medlem at mange, små måltider øker forbrenningen. Til det svarer jeg:)

Dette er feil. Måltidsfrekvensen har ingen påvirkning på forbrenningen.

At det kan være et godt tips for å unngå å få i seg for mange kalorier (ved å holde seg ganske mett hele tiden), det kan jeg være enig.

Altså, diskusjonen dreier seg kun om måltidsfrekvensen påvirker forbrenningen. Eksempelet med ett måltid var kun for å få folk til å vite at forbrenningen ikke tok seg en pause eller døde.

Når det gjelder innlegget ditt, så vit at det resultatene spriker veldig her. Mange studier viser absolutt ingen forskjell mellom. Andre studier viser en forskjell på rundt et par prosent på flere av parameterne, men merk at dette er nibbling-studiene - hvor det vanligvis brukes rundt 20 måltider. Her er det også ganske basic, som UaC skriver, det er mengden mat som spiller den største rollen.


The influence of meal frequency on diurnal lipid, glucose and cortisol levels in normal subjects.
Terpstra J, Hessel LW, Seepers J, Van Gent CM.

Diurnal levels of serum triglyceride, cholesterol, free fatty acids, glucose, and cortisol were measured in four normal persons on a fixed solid 65% carbohydrate diet under steady state conditions in a metabolic unit. Triglyceride levels in all subjects showed similar patterns, which unexpectedly did not bear a simple relation to meal frequency or distribution. With three equivalent meals per day at 09.00, 12.00 and 17.00 hours, 'fasting' triglyceride levels increased by about 0.3 g/l from a minimum value between 03.00 and 05.00 hours in the morning till before breakfast. After breakfast there was a continued rise till about 15.00 hours and then a overall fall in spite of the meal at 17.00 hours. Isocaloric change to eight equivalent meals, consumed between 09.00 and 23.00 hours, resulted in a similar although slightly more even triglyceride pattern. On eight equivalent meals, spaced evenly over the entire 24 h period, a different pattern was found with lower triglyceride values at daytime than at night. Increase in meal frequency did not result in a lowering of mean diurnal triglyceride levels. The cholesterol pattern followed the triglyceride pattern most clearly in subjects with high triglyceride levels. Glucose showed the expected postprandial increments. Cortisol rhythm did not change on varying meal frequency.

[Beefcake]

Nu lär jag väl starta krig men...

Men hadde du lest hele tråden hadde du sett at dette ikke handler om personlige preferanser og hva som er "enkelt", eller snarere "enklest".

Uansett, det å spise med lavere frekvens og større mengde, har også visse hormonelle fordeler, noe som i grunn er opplagt med tanke på at kroppen er utmerket til å tilpasse seg miljøforandringer også innen mat.

Når du videre nevner kortisol så må det sies at mengden mat, totalt sett, også her ville spille inn - og hvor hardt man faktisk velger å gå på dietten.

Jag refererar inte till några personliga preferanser, så det förstår jag inte varför du nämner.

De hormonella fördelerna, vilka är de?

Är helt enig i att det är mängden mat som är det viktigaste.

Diskusjonen var svært enkel her. Jeg kan oppsummere den.

(Her påstår altså et medlem at mange, små måltider øker forbrenningen. Til det svarer jeg:)

Altså, diskusjonen dreier seg kun om måltidsfrekvensen påvirker forbrenningen. Eksempelet med ett måltid var kun for å få folk til å vite at forbrenningen ikke tok seg en pause eller døde.

Ok. Då skall jag hålla mig till måltidsfrekvens och dess effekt på förbränningen.

Helt enig i att förbränningen inte stoppar upp eller tar sig en paus. Fettförbränningen pågår ju konstant, precis som fettinlagringen.

Nei, det er dere som påstår at flere måltider øker forbrenningen. Forklaringen din har du rett og slett funnet på selv. Den har ingen rot i vitenskapen.

Meal frequency and energy balance

Bellisle F, McDevitt R, Prentice AM.

INSERM U341, Hotel Dieu de Paris, France.

Several epidemiological studies have observed an inverse relationship between people's habitual frequency of eating and body weight, leading to the suggestion that a 'nibbling' meal pattern may help in the avoidance of obesity. A review of all pertinent studies shows that, although many fail to find any significant relationship, the relationship is consistently inverse in those that do observe a relationship. However, this finding is highly vulnerable to the probable confounding effects of post hoc changes in dietary patterns as a consequence of weight gain and to dietary under-reporting which undoubtedly invalidates some of the studies. We conclude that the epidemiological evidence is at best very weak, and almost certainly represents an artefact. A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are likely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation.

Undersökningen från 1997 som du refererar till här säger väl egentligen inget om hur många måltider det är snack om. Slutsatsen att matintaget (mängden) är det som spelar någon egentlig roll, är jag enig i. Men att det inte skulle finnas någon rot i vetenskapen att fler måltider skulle stimulera till högre förbränning är fel (se 1-5).


Från 2005:

1. Meal frequency and childhood obesity

Toschke AM, Kuchenhoff H, Koletzko B, von Kries R.

OBJECTIVE: Previous studies have demonstrated an inverse association between meal frequency and the prevalence of obesity in adulthood. The aim of this study was to assess the relationship between meal frequency and childhood obesity. RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURES: Stature and weight of 4,370 German children ages 5 to 6 years were determined in six Bavarian (Germany) public health offices during the obligatory school entry health examination in 2001/2002. An extensive questionnaire on risk factors for obesity was answered by their parents. Obesity was defined according to sex- and age-specific BMI cut-off points proposed by the International Obesity Task Force. The main exposure was daily meal frequency. RESULTS: The prevalence of obesity decreased by number of daily meals: three or fewer meals, 4.2% [95% confidence interval (CI), 2.8 to 6.1]; four meals, 2.8% (95% CI, 2.1 to 3.7); and 5 or more meals, 1.7% (95% CI, 1.2 to 2.4). These effects could not be explained by confounding due to a wide range of constitutional, sociodemographic, and lifestyle factors. The adjusted odds ratios for obesity were 0.73 (95% CI, 0.44 to 1.21) for four meals and 0.51 (95% CI, 0.29 to 0.89) for five or more meals. Additional analyses pointed to a higher energy intake in nibblers compared with gorgers. DISCUSSION: A protective effect of an increased daily meal frequency on obesity in children was observed and appeared to be independent of other risk factors for childhood obesity. A modulation of the response of hormones such as insulin might be instrumental.

Alltså: försökskidsen som åt fler måltider hade ett större totalt energiintag, men färre av dem var överviktiga.


Från 2003:

2. Highlighting the positive impact of increasing feeding frequency on metabolism and weight management.

Louis-Sylvestre J, Lluch A, Neant F, Blundell JE.

Research on feeding frequency started more than 20 years ago and some studies have shown evidence of nutritional benefits, especially on metabolism and body weight management. Advice on feeding frequency could play an important role in public health policies by reducing levels of overweight and obesity, the prevalence of which has dangerously increased in most countries over the last few decades. The 17th International Congress of Nutrition brought to the forefront the benefits of increasing feeding frequency (i.e. keeping the same total daily energy intake but dividing it into more frequent meals than usual). Recent epidemiological studies, mostly carried out in France, have provided evidence on the beneficial effects of a fourth meal for those individuals who habitually choose this pattern. Supported by metabolic data, these findings have now been supported by experimental studies. The "gouter", commonly eaten in the afternoon in France by most children and many adults, has the biological characteristics of a meal because it is eaten in response to hunger. Suppressing the "gouter" in "habitual fourth meal eaters" soon leads to an increase in Body Mass Index (BMI). Further, people who are regular "gouter" eaters have a higher carbohydrate intake and better metabolic profile than other adults, even though their total energy intake is not greater. Increased feeding frequency leads to a reduction in the total secretion of insulin, an improvement in insulin resistance and a better blood glucose control, as well as an improvement in the blood lipid profile. The experts agreed that, as long as we do not consume more energy than we use up and we only eat when we are hungry, it may be useful to split our total energy intake into as many meals as our social pattern allows. However, the pattern of eating cannot be completely dissociated from the composition of foods consumed. Therefore within this energy intake, we must take care to consume not only a good balance of macronutrients with high carbohydrate and low fat levels, but also ensure that we get an adequate intake of essential micronutrients. "What you eat" and "When you eat it" are public health messages to communicate: frequent consumption of low energy dense high carbohydrate foods, rich in micronutrients, must be encouraged ensuring that energy intakes are not greater than energy expenditures and that eating episodes occur in a hunger state.


Från 1989:

3. Nibbling versus gorging: metabolic advantages of increased meal frequency

Jenkins DJ, Wolever TM, Vuksan V, Brighenti F, Cunnane SC, Rao AV, Jenkins AL, Buckley G, Patten R, Singer W, et al.

We studied the effect of increasing the frequency of meals on serum lipid concentrations and carbohydrate tolerance in normal subjects. Seven men were assigned in random order to two metabolically identical diets. One diet consisted of 17 snacks per day (the nibbling diet), and the other of three meals per day (the three-meal diet); each diet was followed for two weeks. As compared with the three-meal diet, the nibbling diet reduced fasting serum concentrations of total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and apolipoprotein B by a mean (+/- SE) of 8.5 +/- 2.5 percent (P less than 0.02), 13.5 +/- 3.4 percent (P less than 0.01), and 15.1 +/- 5.7 percent (P less than 0.05), respectively. Although the mean blood glucose level and serum concentrations of free fatty acids, 3-hydroxybutyrate, and triglyceride were similar during both diets, during the nibbling diet the mean serum insulin level decreased by 27.9 +/- 6.3 percent (P less than 0.01) and the mean 24-hour urinary C-peptide output decreased by 20.2 +/- 5.6 percent (P less than 0.02). In addition, the mean 24-hour urinary cortisol excretion was lower by 17.3 +/- 5.9 percent (P less than 0.05) at the end of the nibbling diet than at the end of the three-meal diet. The blood glucose, serum insulin, and C-peptide responses to a standardized breakfast and the results of an intravenous glucose-tolerance test conducted at the end of each diet were similar. We conclude that in addition to the amount and type of food eaten, the frequency of meals may be an important determinant of fasting serum lipid levels, possibly in relation to changes in insulin secretion.

Fler måltider = lägre insulin- och kortisolnivåer (lägre c-peptidnivåer pekar också på lägre insulinnivåer)


Från 1998:

4. Evidence that eating frequency is inversely related to body weight status in male, but not female, non-obese adults reporting valid dietary intakes

Drummond SE, Crombie NE, Cursiter MC, Kirk TR.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the relationships between eating frequency (EF) and body weight status and to determine whether these relationships can be explained in terms of differences in physical activity levels, macronutrient intakes or energy compensation. DESIGN: Cross-sectional design; free-living subjects, 48 men and 47 women (aged 20-55 y, body mass index (BMI) 18-30), recruited in a workplace setting. MEASUREMENTS: Height and weight; skinfold thickness (four sites); EF, energy and macronutrient intakes (food diary, unweighed, recorded for seven consecutive days); physical activity (7 d activity diary and heart rate monitoring over 48 h period). RESULTS: In men there was a significant negative correlation between EF and body weight, and an inverse relationship with body mass index (BMI). EF was positively correlated with % energy from carbohydrate, although not with total energy intake. In women, there was no relationship between EF and body weight status; however, there were significant positive correlations between EF and total energy intake, and between EF and intakes of total carbohydrate and sugars. For both men and women, there were associations between EF and physical activity levels, approaching statistical significance. CONCLUSIONS: In men, the association between increased EF and lower body weight status may have been influenced by increased physical activity levels. As energy intake did not increase with EF, men appear to have compensated by reducing the mean energy consumed per eating episode. Energy compensation did not take place in women, with women who ate most frequently having the highest energy intakes, although this did not lead to higher BMIs Physical activity, through participation in active leisure pursuits, may have been an important factor in weight control in women. The % contribution of carbohydrate to total energy was positively correlated with EF in both men and women, and further analysis showed that snack foods provided a higher proportion of carbohydrate than did foods eaten as meals. These results indicate that a high EF is likely to lead to a high carbohydrate diet, which may be favourable for weight control. Our findings suggest that in this population, a high EF was associated with leanness in men, and there was no link between EF and body weight status in women.

Ok, denna är kanske lite oklar men den visar i alla fall till att en högre måltidsfrekvens associeras med "leanness" hos män. Hos kvinnor visar den ingen effekt, men det framgår ju också att de kvinnorna som åt ofta också åt mer. Alltså återigen: mer mat, oftare = högre förbränning.


Från 1984:

5. Feeding frequency and nitrogen balance in weight-reducing obese women.

Antoine JM, Rohr R, Gagey MJ, Bleyer RE, Debry G.

In a prospective trial, ten obese women, each her own reference, ate a 1200 kcal/d slimming diet in six meals a day compared with three meals a day during two 14-d periods. Loss of weight was slightly greater during the six-meal periods when loss of nitrogen was lower and thus loss of lean mass was also lower.




Men när det är sagt så finns det ju undersökningar som stöder er tes. Denna är från 2004, men märk att den är utförd av France Bellisle som var en av de som utförde undersökningen du refererar till ("Meal frequency and energy balance"):

Impact of the daily meal pattern on energy balance

France Bellisle

The daily distribution of food intake can influence the regulation of energy balance and, in consequence, the control of body weight. Two aspects of this question must be considered: the daily number of eating occasions and their temporal distribution. Since the 1960s, epidemiological studies have reported an inverse relationship between frequency of eating and body weight, suggesting that a "nibbling" pattern could help to prevent obesity. This notion has later been put into question by the recognition of a high level of dietary underreporting in overweight individuals. In addition, no difference in total daily energy expenditure has been documented as a function of daily meal number. Weight loss is not facilitated by high meal frequency. Snacking in obese subjects is associated with higher energy and fat intake. By contrast, in normal-weight people, snacking does not necessarily lead to increased energy intake, while snacks often contain more carbohydrates and less fat than regular meals. Obese people tend to eat little in the morning and much in the afternoon and the evening. In extreme cases, a "night-eating syndrome" is observed. Understanding the relationship between the circadian distribution of intake and obesity (or resistance to weight loss) seems critical for theoretical as well as clinical reasons.

The influence of meal frequency on diurnal lipid, glucose and cortisol levels in normal subjects.
Terpstra J, Hessel LW, Seepers J, Van Gent CM.

Diurnal levels of serum triglyceride, cholesterol, free fatty acids, glucose, and cortisol were measured in four normal persons on a fixed solid 65% carbohydrate diet under steady state conditions in a metabolic unit. Triglyceride levels in all subjects showed similar patterns, which unexpectedly did not bear a simple relation to meal frequency or distribution. With three equivalent meals per day at 09.00, 12.00 and 17.00 hours, 'fasting' triglyceride levels increased by about 0.3 g/l from a minimum value between 03.00 and 05.00 hours in the morning till before breakfast. After breakfast there was a continued rise till about 15.00 hours and then a overall fall in spite of the meal at 17.00 hours. Isocaloric change to eight equivalent meals, consumed between 09.00 and 23.00 hours, resulted in a similar although slightly more even triglyceride pattern. On eight equivalent meals, spaced evenly over the entire 24 h period, a different pattern was found with lower triglyceride values at daytime than at night. Increase in meal frequency did not result in a lowering of mean diurnal triglyceride levels. The cholesterol pattern followed the triglyceride pattern most clearly in subjects with high triglyceride levels. Glucose showed the expected postprandial increments. Cortisol rhythm did not change on varying meal frequency.

Denna undersökningen du nämner är ju ganska gammal (från 1978).
Se "Nibbling versus gorging: metabolic advantages of increased meal frequency" (3):
...In addition, the mean 24-hour urinary cortisol excretion was lower by 17.3 +/- 5.9 percent (P less than 0.05) at the end of the nibbling diet than at the end of the three-meal diet...

Når det gjelder innlegget ditt, så vit at det resultatene spriker veldig her. Mange studier viser absolutt ingen forskjell mellom. Andre studier viser en forskjell på rundt et par prosent på flere av parameterne, men merk at dette er nibbling-studiene - hvor det vanligvis brukes rundt 20 måltider. Her er det også ganske basic, som UaC skriver, det er mengden mat som spiller den største rollen.

Som sagt tidigare så är jag helt enig i att det är mängden mat som är av egentlig betydelse. Men er ståndpunkt är ju:

Dette er feil. Måltidsfrekvensen har ingen påvirkning på forbrenningen.

Oavsett om det är "nibbling"-studier (som nr. 3) eller ej så pekar de ju på det motsatta av detta.


D

[Baahh]

Sorry, men du er for sent ute til å få noe skikkelig svar. Hadde du vært første til å svare i denne tråden, hadde du garantert fått et bedre svar. Nå er motivasjonen på bånn for å bruke tid på å lete fram og poste studier her på forumet.

Undersökningen från 1997 som du refererar till här säger väl egentligen inget om hur många måltider det är snack om. Slutsatsen att matintaget (mängden) är det som spelar någon egentlig roll, är jag enig i. Men att det inte skulle finnas någon rot i vetenskapen att fler måltider skulle stimulera till högre förbränning är fel (se 1-5).

Dette er bare abstraktet. Er du på et universitet, f¨år du tilgang på hele. I tidligere diskusjoner har jeg refererert til flere studier som viser akkurat det samme. Det som kjennetegner studiene jeg refererer til, er at de tar utgangspunkt i den faktiske forbrenningen og det faktiske kaloriinntaket. Jeg har til overs å se studier som bruker samme metode gi forskjellig resultat.

Hvis du finner studier som tar utgangspunkt i en diett på et fast antall kalorier, og de splitter kaninene i flere grupper; en gruppe som f.eks spiser to måltider og en gruppe som f.eks spiser åtte måltider, så er det meget interessant. Mange avviser blankt forsøk gjort på rotter, det synes jeg er dumt. Rotter er veldig like og kan kontrolleres bedre enn mennesker (studiene kan ikke kritiseres så lett). Samtlige kontrollerte studier jeg har lest gjort på rotter, viser at det ikke er noen sammenheng mellom måltidsfrekvensen og energibalansen.

[Beefcake]

Sorry, men du er for sent ute til å få noe skikkelig svar. Hadde du vært første til å svare i denne tråden, hadde du garantert fått et bedre svar. Nå er motivasjonen på bånn for å bruke tid på å lete fram og poste studier her på forumet.

Easy way out...

Dette er bare abstraktet. Er du på et universitet, f¨år du tilgang på hele. I tidligere diskusjoner har jeg refererert til flere studier som viser akkurat det samme. Det som kjennetegner studiene jeg refererer til, er at de tar utgangspunkt i den faktiske forbrenningen og det faktiske kaloriinntaket. Jeg har til overs å se studier som bruker samme metode gi forskjellig resultat.

Hvis du finner studier som tar utgangspunkt i en diett på et fast antall kalorier, og de splitter kaninene i flere grupper; en gruppe som f.eks spiser to måltider og en gruppe som f.eks spiser åtte måltider, så er det meget interessant. Mange avviser blankt forsøk gjort på rotter, det synes jeg er dumt. Rotter er veldig like og kan kontrolleres bedre enn mennesker (studiene kan ikke kritiseres så lett). Samtlige kontrollerte studier jeg har lest gjort på rotter, viser at det ikke er noen sammenheng mellom måltidsfrekvensen og energibalansen.

Från 1997:

1. Benefit of more but smaller meals at a fixed daily protein intake.

Bujko J, Schreurs VV, Koopmanschap PE, Furstenberg E, Keller JS.

The influence of meal frequency on change of body weight and protein status, measured by level of amino acid oxidation (decarboxylation) in the postabsorptive state, was studied at a fixed daily protein intake. Growing rats (250g) were fed through gastric canula a feeding solution based on Nutrison Standard supplying 1.6g protein and 266kJ ME daily. This amount was given in either 2 large meals at the beginning and the end, or in 6 smaller meals, or by continuous infusion during entire dark period (10 hrs). After 3 weeks of feeding the mean growth rate of the rats fed continuously was nearly 20% higher than rats fed the same amount in 2 meals. The rats fed 6 meals a day had a growth rate rather similar to the rats fed continuously. The percentile recovery of label as 14CO2 in the breath after an intraperitoneal injection of [1-14C]leucine (4 hrs after last meal) was significantly higher (p.05) for the animals fed continuously (27% sd 2.6) compared to the rats fed 2 meals (21.9% sd 4.0). The value for 6 meal group was intermediate (24.5 sd 1.8). The results indicate that the metabolic utilization of a fixed daily amount of protein is clearly influenced by the way of supply. With respect to the change of body weight and protein status, animals have more benefit of the same amount of protein if the supply is more equable. It is suggested that the difference is caused by metabolic restriction for an adequate utilisation of large meals. Therefore large meals are supposed to cause a waste of amino acids in the postprandial phase. As a consequence amino acid amount that will be stored in the body to be available in the postabsorptive phase will be less.

Tog med denna eftersom du nämner råttor. Den säger inget om förbränning då det här handlar om växande råttungar, men oavsett så visar det till att flera måltider är bättre än få med tanke på tillväxt.


Från 2003:
 
2. Association between eating patterns and obesity in a free-living US adult population.

Ma Y, Bertone ER, Stanek EJ 3rd, Reed GW, Hebert JR, Cohen NL, Merriam PA, Ockene IS.

Some studies have suggested that eating patterns, which describe eating frequency, the temporal distribution of eating events across the day, breakfast skipping, and the frequency of eating meals away from home, may be related to obesity. Data from the Seasonal Variation of Blood Cholesterol Study (1994-1998) were used to evaluate the relation between eating patterns and obesity. Three 24-hour dietary recalls and a body weight measurement were collected at five equally spaced time points over a 1-year period from 499 participants. Data were averaged for five time periods, and a cross-sectional analysis was conducted. Odds ratios were adjusted for other obesity risk factors including age, sex, physical activity, and total energy intake. Results indicate that a greater number of eating episodes each day was associated with a lower risk of obesity (odds ratio for four or more eating episodes vs. three or fewer = 0.55, 95% confidence interval: 0.33, 0.91). In contrast, skipping breakfast was associated with increased prevalence of obesity (odds ratio = 4.5, 95% confidence interval: 1.57, 12.90), as was greater frequency of eating breakfast or dinner away from home. Further investigation of these associations in prospective studies is warranted.

[JanB Diddl etc]

Det er litt rart å tenke på dette med mellommåltider. Et mellommåltid er jo i seg selv også et måltid. Hva hvis man spiser litt før dette måltidet? Blir det da et mellom-mellommåltid? Og er det egentlig noen som definert hvor lenge det må gå mellom hvert måltid for at det kan kalles et måltid? F.eks hvis man tygger sakte, kan da hver bit kalles et måltid, og hva skal man i tilfelle kalle disse måltidene? Det blir jo nesten umulig å referere til f.eks et mellom-mellom-mellom-mellommåltid. Og hvis man begynner å splitte opp hvert tygg, dvs ikke anvende diskrete verdier, hva skjer da? Da kan jo hvert tygg deles opp i det uendelige, og antall måltider går mot uendelig. Hvordan skal man klare å presentere dette i FLEX?

[Beefcake]

Consequence or omitting or adding a meal

Nutrition Research Newsletter,  April, 2006 

The influence of eating frequency on body composition has provided relatively consistent results in animals. For example, in rats, more fat-free mass and less fat mass are gained for a similar body weight when food intake is fractionated in several small meals instead of few big meals. If these data are relevant to human eating, this would mean a lower body fat for a similar body weight and may have important consequences in terms of public health because it is established that body fat rather than body weight per se is the primary cause of increased morbidity. Such a beneficial result could, therefore, be reached by a simple change in the daily number of meals. The present study was designed to determine whether a change in the usual meal frequency of young and healthy male subjects would result in changes of adiposity and associated biological parameters. To be as relevant as possible to real-life conditions, the researchers modified meal frequency of subjects only by asking them to omit from or to include in their usual eating pattern an afternoon eating occasion known in France as the gouter. This eating occasion generally distinguishes four- and three-meal eaters in this country, leading to a doubling of the lunch and dinner intermeal interval in the latter group. It is consumed by most children but persists in only approximately 30% of adults.

Twenty-four young normal-weight male subjects were recruited, 12 usual four-meal and 12 usual three-meal eaters, differing only in the consumption of an afternoon meal. They omitted or added a fourth meal during a 28-day habituation period and were asked to report their intake on three three-day occasions. Before and after this habituation period, subjects participated in a session with a time-blinded procedure, and blood was collected continuously from lunch to the spontaneously requested dinner. Body composition, respiratory quotient, and biochemical parameters were measured in the late evening preceding each session.

Omitting a meal was followed by increases in fat mass (360 [+ or -] 115 g), late evening leptin concentration (20.7 [+ or -] 11.0%), and respiratory quotient (RQ, 3.7 [+ or -] 1.4%). Increase in the percentage of dietary fat during the habituation period (+4.1 [+ or -] 2.0%) was correlated with fat mass (r = 0.66). Adding a meal had no effect, but, in both groups, the change in energy content at this fourth eating occasion was correlated with the change in adiposity.

Most changes were observed in the four-meal eater group who switched to three meals per day by omitting the gouter. In this group (4 MF to 3 MF), mean fat mass, late evening leptin concentration, and RQ increased between sessions by 3.3 [+ or -] 1.3%, 20.7 [+ or -] 11.0%, and 3.7 [+ or -] 1.4%, respectively. Energy intake at lunch and dinner was also higher in S2 than in S1 but not enough to compensate for the energy of the omitted gouter. Percentages of protein and fat in the diet were also increased during the first one-third of the habituation period. The causal role of omission of a meal in the change in body composition was supported by the positive correlation between the level of daily energy to which the gouter contributed before the experiment and the change in fat mass; the higher the energy intake at the gouter, the higher the gain in fat mass on omission of the gouter. Looking at individual data, fat deposition occurred mostly when omitting this meal represented a high energy challenge. It is important to note that such a relation was not found for other meals, arguing for the specific role of the omitted meal. Thus, not only the duration of the intermeal interval but also the level of exogenous energy usually provided during this intermeal interval will contribute to fat deposition.

These findings also provide new insight on the relations between leptin and body composition. First, fat mass was more strongly correlated with late evening plasma leptin than with any diurnal leptin time-point. Second, in the 3 MF to 4 MF group, the individual changes in fat mass and late evening leptin concentrations were negatively correlated, but there was a strong positive correlation between leptin and fat-free mass. This relation is particularly unusual.

The last result is the increase in carbohydrate oxidation as estimated by the RQ in the 4 MF to 3 MF group. Across subjects, the RQ was in a narrow range (0.771 [+ or -] 0.02), evidencing a metabolism in which fat and carbohydrate contributed 77% and 23%, respectively. In the 4 MF to 3 MF group, glucose and NEFAs were correlated with the RQ with positive and negative coefficients, respectively. Moreover, the changes in fat-free mass and fat mass also correlated with the change in RQ, with positive and negative coefficients, respectively. This suggests that the more that fat mass is gained, the more that fat oxidation will increase during the midnocturnal period.

In conclusion, these results show that reducing meal frequency of lean male subjects by only one meal per day during one month induced a rapid but transitory increase in spontaneous dietary fat, fat gain, and midnocturnal leptin increase. These changes could be adaptive, allowing metabolism to face longer intermeal intervals through increased fatty acid disposal. Switching from a three- to a four-meal pattern by decreasing intake at much did not induce any change. These results suggest that individuals having a usual four-meal pattern could be at risk of gaining adiposity if they shift to a lower meal frequency, a hypothesis that would require assessment in future studies.

[Beefcake]

Från 1996:

Effects of meal frequency on body composition during weight control in boxers

IWAO S. (1) ; MORI K. (2) ; SATO Y. (3) ;

The effects of meal frequency on changes in body composition by food restriction were investigated. Twelve boxers were divided between a two meals day[-1] group (the 2M group) and a six meals day[-1] group (the 6M group). Both groups ingested 5.02 MJ (1200 kcal) day[-1]for 2 weeks. Although there was no difference in change of body weight by food restriction between the two groups, the decrease in lean body mass (LBM) was significantly greater in the 2M group than in the 6M group. The decrease in urinary 3-methylhistidine/creatinine was significantly greater in the 6M group than in the 2M group. These results suggest that the lower frequency of meal intake leads to a greater myoprotein catabolism even if the same diet is consumed.

Alltså: båda testgrupperna gick ned lika mycket i vikt, men de som åt färre måltider förlorade mer muskelmassa än de som åt fler måltider.

[Baahh]

Easy way out...

Det kan du godt si. Det er femten tusen medlemmer her. At jeg ikke tar meg tid til å forsvare utsagnet mitt for samtlige håper jeg det er forståelse for. Det betyr mindre og mindre for meg hva folk egentlig tror. Uansett, du er vel den eneste som kommer med studier her, og det settes det pris på.

Som du skriver har ikke den første studien noe med særlig med diskusjonen å gjøre siden jeg som sagt ikke uten videre vil anbefale folk å bare spise ett måltid om dagen - det var som sagt bare et eksempel. Jeg synes den allikevel er interessant. Den viser et helt annet resultat enn lignende studier jeg har sett. Et spørsmål man kan stille seg er om det er forskjell på voksne og barn her. Dette blir uansett en helt annen diskusjon.

Den andre studien du poster bekrefter i hvert fall at mennesker har en tendes til å totalt spise mer ved lavere måltidsfrekvens enn ved en høy måltidsfrekvens (som jeg er helt enig).

Som sagt har jeg til overs å se studier som viser at en diett på et eksakt antall kalorier fordelt på to forskjellige måter viser signifikant forskjell i forbrenningen. Jeg har vel tidligere postet sikkert fem studier som underbygger min påstand her på forumet før. Håper du forstår hva jeg mener. Jeg har verken tid eller ork til å gå gjennom studie på studie som blir postet her.

[Baahh]

Från 1996:

Effects of meal frequency on body composition during weight control in boxers

IWAO S. (1) ; MORI K. (2) ; SATO Y. (3) ;

The effects of meal frequency on changes in body composition by food restriction were investigated. Twelve boxers were divided between a two meals day[-1] group (the 2M group) and a six meals day[-1] group (the 6M group). Both groups ingested 5.02 MJ (1200 kcal) day[-1]for 2 weeks. Although there was no difference in change of body weight by food restriction between the two groups, the decrease in lean body mass (LBM) was significantly greater in the 2M group than in the 6M group. The decrease in urinary 3-methylhistidine/creatinine was significantly greater in the 6M group than in the 2M group. These results suggest that the lower frequency of meal intake leads to a greater myoprotein catabolism even if the same diet is consumed.

Alltså: båda testgrupperna gick ned lika mycket i vikt, men de som åt färre måltider förlorade mer muskelmassa än de som åt fler måltider.

Diskusjonen her er om måltidsfrekvensen påvirker forbrenningen. Studien du postet viser jo nettopp at den ikke gjør det.

Som sagt, la oss holde oss til diskusjonen, hvis ikke blir dette bare et stort rot.

Den andre artikkelen du postet har jeg ikke tid til å lese nå.,

[Beefcake]

Diskusjonen her er om måltidsfrekvensen påvirker forbrenningen. Studien du postet viser jo nettopp at den ikke gjør det.

Som sagt, la oss holde oss til diskusjonen, hvis ikke blir dette bare et stort rot.

Den andre artikkelen du postet har jeg ikke tid til å lese nå.,

Läste du den? Den visar till samma förbränning ja, men högre fettförbränning vid flera måltider.

D

[Baahh]

Denne studien kom opp som alternativ på PubMed til den rottestudien du postet. Hvorfor valgte du ikke denne`? Den er jo mer relevant - den går jo rett etter det som er diskusjonen her.

Effects of meal frequency on energy utilization in rats

J. O. Hill, J. C. Anderson, D. Lin and F. Yakubu
Department of Pediatrics, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, Tennessee 37232.

The effects of differences in meal frequency on body weight, body composition, and energy expenditure were studied in mildly food-restricted male rats. Two groups were fed approximately 80% of usual food intake (as periodically determined in a group of ad libitum fed controls) for 131 days. One group received all of its food in 2 meals/day and the other received all of its food in 10-12 meals/day. The two groups did not differ in food intake, body weight, body composition, food efficiency (carcass energy gain per amount of food eaten), or energy expenditure at any time during the study. Both food-restricted groups had a lower food intake, body weight gain, and energy expenditure than a group of ad libitum-fed controls. In conclusion, these results suggest that amount of food eaten, but not the pattern with which it is ingested, has a major influence on energy balance during mild food restriction.

[Gen-i-alt]

Jeg har verken tid eller ork til å gå gjennom studie på studie som blir postet her.

Trodde det var derfor du postet de første artiklene her jeg..At du ville få igang en diskusjon? Og når noen først legger frem noe som faktisk er relevant gidder du ikke mer? Mulig hva du prøver å få frem er at du har mistet interesse for diskusjonen i sin helhet. Men beefcakes innlegg her er da verdt å se nøyere på...(?)